[Articles] Does the Bible Contradict Itself?

[Cerebellum]

Now when we point out seeming contradictions sa bible, to what end?
Are we distracting ourself look away from the core of the message?

Naalala ko yung nabasa ko. Ipinaliwanag doon kung bakit ipinahintulot ng Diyos na ipasulat sa Bibliya yung, sa paningin nating mga tao eh, salungatan/kontradiksyon sa salita ng Diyos.

Here what it says:

The way in which the Bible is written has served to reveal what is in people’s hearts. (Heb. 4:12) Those who want to find what seem to be flaws and contradictions in the Bible can find them. One reason for this is that the Bible does not spell out all the details. Often it relates people’s reasonings, words and actions without expressing any direct approval or disapproval. That is why some persons, on reading a certain account, question whether God was really just and fair in what he did. Then they use this as an excuse for not making the changes in their way of life that the Bible recommends. This works in harmony with God’s purpose to have as his approved servants only those who really love him and appreciate him for what he is.—Deut. 30:11-20; 1 John 4:8-10; 5:2, 3.

However, the person who has given serious consideration to the Bible and has actually experienced what a wonderful guide for living it is does not seize upon what appear to be contradictions in an effort to discredit it as God’s message to man. He does not blind himself to seeming problems. Not at all. He realizes that the Bible is one harmonious whole, and so exercises care that he does not ignore the context in which the Bible as a whole presents a particular event or situation. By way of illustration, say you had a very good friend whom you knew to be a good father, a man who really cared about the welfare of his children. If you heard that he severely punished his son, would you immediately conclude that he was totally unjustified and unreasonable in this? Of course not; because of your knowing him, you would reason that he must have had valid grounds for handling the situation as he did. Similarly, the Bible provides enough information about the personality, ways and dealings of Jehovah to enable us to know the kind of God he is. Therefore, even when the details are not spelled out in any given situation, why should anyone become upset, thinking that God is unloving, unmerciful or unjust? To do so would be to deny the abundant evidence in the Bible as a whole that he is a loving, merciful and just God.—Ex. 34:6, 7; Isa. 63:7-9.
—

Tapos mero'n pa 'kong nabasa din:

At other times it’s looking ‘too deep’ into something in an effort to understand, it becomes like a person trying to read the page of a book with his nose on the page. You might get a real close look at a couple of words, but you don’t see the whole picture that a casual person would, because you end up trying too hard.
—

Simple lang naman sana ang itinuturo ng Bibliya sa mga tao tungkol sa Diyos, ang problema, dahil sa laganap na mga ideyang nagkalat sa sanlibutan, (Col. 2:8) pinalabo nito ang 'mata' (pang-unawa ng mga tao) sa mga 'katotohanan' na ipinasulat ng Diyos sa kaniyang salita, ang Bibliya. Sa pagsisikap na ipagmatuwid ang kanilang sarili sa pag-iisip na MAS MARUNONG AT MATALINO sila, kanilang nalimutan na sila ay mga tao na may limitadong kakayahan lamang at kaalaman kumpara sa isa na LUMALANG sa kanila.

2 Cor. 4:3, 4
3 Ang totoo, kung natatalukbungan ang mabuting balita na ipinahahayag namin, natatalukbungan ito para sa mga malilipol, 4 ang mga di-sumasampalataya, na ang isip ay binulag ng diyos ng sistemang ito para hindi makatagos ang liwanag ng maluwalhating mabuting balita tungkol sa Kristo, na siyang larawan ng Diyos.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Pag nag asawa at anak ka paps matuto ka talaga magluto… bfast nga nag ask kids ng lugaw at malamig daw… ayun nanood lang ako sa YøùTùbé at nagtesting… edible nman daw sabi mga bata… hahahaha

Nung mag asawa ako, lalo na ako hndi nakapagluto. Ewan ko nlng pag labas ng anak namin. Baka boy taga na ako nun. Tagaluto na tagalaba pa.

 

[Cerebellum]

Nung mag asawa ako, lalo na ako hndi nakapagluto. Ewan ko nlng pag labas ng anak namin. Baka boy taga na ako nun. Tagaluto na tagalaba pa.

tatagain ka paps haha

 

[NOUGHT]

a new drama is unfolding

 

[Cerebellum]

View attachment 2341195
a new drama is unfolding

medyo late ka na ng marami hahaha

 

[jayendecastro]

Nauunawaan kasi namin, sa tulong ni Jehova, na yung gusto nating pamamaraan sana na ginamit Niya sana ay iba sa pamamaraan na ginamit niya,

kaya wala akong magagawa kundi tanggapin na may paraan si Jehova na iba sa naiisip kong paraan ..

Kung hindi mo po 'yon matanggap, nasa sa'yo naman na yun paps .. Kasi, sinabi naman na ni Jehova sa Bible na iba tlga yung ways/thinking niya compared sa'ting mga tao ..


Pero ano ba ang sinasabi ng Bibliya, that it is a "word of God", hindi ba? (2 Tim. 3:16)

Sa sinasabi mo namang mankind’s attempt at understanding the word of god,

totoo namang sinusubukan nating unawain yung salita ng Diyos, at tao lang tayo, kaya gaya ng sabi mo, tanging yung Diyos lang yung may kakayahang ipaunawa sa atin yung mga salita niya, sang-ayon ka ba do'n?

Pero nasa sa ating mga indibiduwal kung tatanggapin natin ang sinasabi sa salita niya o hindi .. Gaya ng nasabi ko na, sa tulong ng Diyos, nauunawaan kong iba ang paraan ni Jehova sa paggawa ng mga bagay-bagay kumpara sa naiisip ko/natin na dapat ginawa niya, at tinatanggap ko y'on bilang pagkilala na si Jehova ay Diyos, at ako ay tao lang na may limitadong kakayahan at kaisipan ..


You questioned it, rights mo naman po yan .. Puwede rin namin kuwestiyunin kasi yung mga nakasulat sa Bible gaya mo, pero dahil nagtitiwala kami kay Jehovah, isinasantabi namin iyon at nagsisikap na lang na ituon ang pansin namin sa mas mahahalagang bagay, gaya ng pagpapatibay sa kaugnayan namin sa kaniya ..

Basta si Jehova, binibigyan niya ng kalayaan ang bawat isa sa atin kung tatanggapin natin o hindi yung sinasabi sa salita niya o hindi ..

Actually, pag naiisip ko kung paano mapaaabutan ng good news yung ibang mga tao na nasa remote areas, or those people na walang salin ng Bible, naiisip ko hahayaan kaya ni Jehova na hindi sila mapaabutan ng mabuting balita at mapuksa na lang sa wakas ng sanlibutang ito? Mga ganyang tanong.

Pero pag iniisip kong may paraan si Jehova para maisakatuparan yung layunin niya—paraan na hindi ko alam o nalalaman, hinahayaan ko na lang yung tanong na yon kasi nagtitiwala akong pagdating ng Armageddon, magiging patas siya sa lahat.

Sa ngayon, those individuals na napapaabutan NAMIN ng mabuting balita, sila naman yung may pagkakataon para tanggapin yung iniaalok ni Jehova na buhay na walang hanggan sa lupa kapag binago na ito at pinuksa na ang mga masasama. Hindi kami ang hahatol kung sino ang makakaligtas o hindi, o kung sino ang bubuhaying-muli o hindi.

Ipinangangaral lang namin kung ano ang itinuturo ng Bibliya. Nasa pagpapasiya na ng mga individual kung tatanggapin nila ang itinuturo ng Bibliya or hindi.

Iksian ko na lang paps…

Sige i can consider na i cannot comprehend ung thinking and ways ni god…if thats the case na ibang level si god sa mga tao… but can u do the same thing as well?? Na since ibang level nga si god at perhaps we cannot fathom ung power at knowledge then perhaps pd mo din iconsider ung possibility na understanding mo or understanding now jw might also be wrong since pare pareho lang na “tao lang” tayo after all…

And im not asking kung ano feeling mo sa magiging paraan ni god to spread his word… im asking u as an individual.. kung pano gagawin mo kung ikaw ang magpapakalat ng isang message accurately and widespread to everyone…suggestion mo lang…

Accurate satatement k nmn. I will not disagree. Yan tlga relationship ng karamihan ng theist sa religion nila.
It is hard for them to tell which are required, vs prescripted. Kaya it really boils down to you if a particular part of content on the bible is a message to tell you

"This is your purpose"
Or
"This is How you find your purpose"

Religion for sure historically became authoritarian. To keep people from going back to their pagan beliefs. Where their pagan god is the highest authority.

Sa case sa Philippines, in your opinion, nakalabas na ba tayo sa ganitong dynamic?

Exactly… the bible can inspire and connect to some people…so does other literature..music…art…people…etc

One can find his or her purpose in any of that…

It was meant to connect na kahit may inconsistencies, it doesnt remove from the core of message.

Pag itinuturo kasi ang buhay nung mga heroes na yan, the core of the message diba,
"this is what they fought for"
"This is why whe value this and that"
Pero we tend to distract ourself, dun sa ibang details like "babaero daw si rizal"
"Traidor daw si aguinaldo"
But to what end?
Does it make us feel better person than them?

Now when we point out seeming contradictions sa bible, to what end?
Are we distracting ourself look away from the core of the message?

Yes… those heroes’s values and sacrifices are what we honor and celebrate… but the mere fact that we are aware of mga negative things about them means we are acknowledging that they have flaws… i mentioned this bfore na somewhere na ung sacrifices ng mga ninuno ntin if something we celebrate.. pero we also need to acknowledge ung shortcomings nila kaya tayo napunta sa gantong situation now… we are the results of not just their success but also their failures… and yang mga flaws na yan… thats what makes it even better kasi we can all relate to them as as flawed individuals ourselves na perhaps we can be as good if not better than them…

Thats something na theists find hard to do… they will celebrate what their god have done for them…they will show gratitude and worship…but they will never acknowledge even just a tiny bit of criticism or flaw kay god or what he did or will do…

Sinabi ko din to before… i have no problem saying na madaming magagandang bagay at turo sa bible..pero bat ung pag masasamang bagay ang pinopoint out parang hindi pd..why cant theist acknowledge that there are bad things and lessons in the bible…

Are we gonna look away sa mga bad things sa bible because the core message is good??

And what is the “core message” of the bible exactly??

If the core message is “to be a good, just, etc person to everyone”… thats fine…I dont need the bible to do just that but its still a good message nonetheless… pero if someone needs a bible to be good then i think something’s wrong with that individual..

on the other hand.. theists will say that the core message is “to be a good..etc believer and worshipper of god”… thats my issue… i have to be convinced to believe in god…and if god is indeed the god of the bible..i dont think i can worship him..will he kill or punish me for being created this way na kulang ang capacity to be convinced na totoo sya…will he do the same for taking offense sa mga bagay na ginawa at itinuro nea and refusing to worship him?? Fine. If thats the kind of god he is…

Nung mag asawa ako, lalo na ako hndi nakapagluto. Ewan ko nlng pag labas ng anak namin. Baka boy taga na ako nun. Tagaluto na tagalaba pa.

Hahaha.. ilan na anak mo paps??

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

will he kill or punish me for being created this way na kulang ang capacity to be convinced na totoo sya…will he do the same for taking offense sa mga bagay na ginawa at itinuro nea and refusing to worship him??

Tingin ko it is a good thing na tinatanong mo yan.. at very likely hindi yan tanong para samin kundi para sayo. Kung sasagutin yan, jan kami magkakaiba ni paps cereb.
But its not about the answer. It is more about how you found it. Kahit nga sa mga simpleng anime katulad ng one piece at dragon ball itinuturo yan concept. (Meron nmn bhuddist roots kasi yan mga yan). Ung episode na nagalit si Luffy kay Usopp dahil tinanong nya si Rayleigh about one piece: its hinting a lot about sa relationship natin sa beliefs natin.

If i say my answer, your belief will just turn into my belief at nawala na ung essence nung ideas behind it.

Hahaha.. ilan na anak mo paps??

Una palang paps, hnd pa lumalabas. Kinakabahan nga ako e.

 

[jayendecastro]

Tingin ko it is a good thing na tinatanong mo yan.. at very likely hindi yan tanong para samin kundi para sayo. Kung sasagutin yan, jan kami magkakaiba ni paps cereb.
But its not about the answer. It is more about how you found it. Kahit nga sa mga simpleng anime katulad ng one piece at dragon ball itinuturo yan concept. (Meron nmn bhuddist roots kasi yan mga yan). Ung episode na nagalit si Luffy kay Usopp dahil tinanong nya si Rayleigh about one piece: its hinting a lot about sa relationship natin sa beliefs natin.

If i say my answer, your belief will just turn into my belief at nawala na ung essence nung ideas behind it.



Una palang paps, hnd pa lumalabas. Kinakabahan nga ako e.

Nope..ive asked myself those questions long time ago pa… thats for you… Cerebellum and whoever else na makabasa… cause for me, my answer is i dont know…and im fine with that answer..but ofcors, for some people that’s not enough… they will say that i dont have the capacity to understand god’s message while at the same time proclaim that they somehow do…

Our answers to those questions may or may not any impact on each other… thats just how it is… but the main point here the fact na we get to asks those questions in the first place… na merong room para maging skeptical…na unfortunately eh takot na takot na gawin ng iba…pero everything else in their life nagaapply sila ng some degree of skepticism…

Critical sa ibang religion pero pag sila icriticize they take offense.

Asking to be open sa possibility na tama sila pero they cant do the same sa paniniwala ng iba…

Referencing the good and even scientifically-aligned things in the bible but does not even acknowledge ung bad and improbable na nakasulat

Na walang nakasulat na ganto or ganang praktis sa bible pero ung mga imoral praktis na nkasulat pag namention mo eh iignore… and when they do address it eh kung ano anong dahilan like context, metaphor,

I cannot ignore the flaws for the sake of the core message…do u even know what it is??

Anw… congrats to you and ur partner and goodluck… sobrang kakakaba yan.. pero trust me.. best part jan is ung pag nakita mo na yung anak mo for the first time… nakakaoverwhelm pag karga mo na unang beses… sa una lang yan.. tapos susunod maiirita ka na.. jk… hahahaha

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Nope..ive asked myself those questions long time ago pa… thats for you… Cerebellum and whoever else na makabasa… cause for me, my answer is i dont know…and im fine with that answer..but ofcors, for some people that’s not enough… they will say that i dont have the capacity to understand god’s message while at the same time proclaim that they somehow do…

Our answers to those questions may or may not any impact on each other… thats just how it is… but the main point here the fact na we get to asks those questions in the first place… na merong room para maging skeptical…na unfortunately eh takot na takot na gawin ng iba…pero everything else in their life nagaapply sila ng some degree of skepticism…

Critical sa ibang religion pero pag sila icriticize they take offense.

Asking to be open sa possibility na tama sila pero they cant do the same sa paniniwala ng iba…

Referencing the good and even scientifically-aligned things in the bible but does not even acknowledge ung bad and improbable na nakasulat

Na walang nakasulat na ganto or ganang praktis sa bible pero ung mga imoral praktis na nkasulat pag namention mo eh iignore… and when they do address it eh kung ano anong dahilan like context, metaphor,

I cannot ignore the flaws for the sake of the core message…do u even know what it is??

Anw… congrats to you and ur partner and goodluck… sobrang kakakaba yan.. pero trust me.. best part jan is ung pag nakita mo na yung anak mo for the first time… nakakaoverwhelm pag karga mo na unang beses… sa una lang yan.. tapos susunod maiirita ka na.. jk… hahahaha

Wala nmn tlga problema sa sagot na "i dont know". In zen bhuddist term nga yan tinutukoy nila sa "you must empty your cup"
Pero agree ako sa part na hindi sapat yun. Kasi may kadugtong pa nga yan kasabihan na yan. "..so that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality.”


Its really just a matter of understanding.

Hindi mo nmn tlga makikita ang subconcious belief at intention ng kausap mo. At a lot of times, questioning is taken as an offense, depende sa purpose nung question, they take a defensive position, wala nmn na tlga dun ung content nung (at least fragments of) "katotohanan" na sasabihin sana nila in the first place. Back to Zen “You are like this cup — so full of ideas that nothing more will fit in. Come back to me with an empty cup.”

So ang key is, maybe ask the proper question that you truly want to find answer to. Ganun.

 

[jonreb]

Saan po ng galing ang konsensya at paano po eto nagawa

 

[jayendecastro]

Wala nmn tlga problema sa sagot na "i dont know". In zen bhuddist term nga yan tinutukoy nila sa "you must empty your cup"
Pero agree ako sa part na hindi sapat yun. Kasi may kadugtong pa nga yan kasabihan na yan. "..so that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality.”


Its really just a matter of understanding.

Hindi mo nmn tlga makikita ang subconcious belief at intention ng kausap mo. At a lot of times, questioning is taken as an offense, depende sa purpose nung question, they take a defensive position, wala nmn na tlga dun ung content nung (at least fragments of) "katotohanan" na sasabihin sana nila in the first place. Back to Zen “You are like this cup — so full of ideas that nothing more will fit in. Come back to me with an empty cup.”

So ang key is, maybe ask the proper question that you truly want to find answer to. Ganun.

There’s a difference between “i dont know” and “i dont wanna know”…

I have to disagree with u na for you eh di sapat un.. me saying “i dont know” like u said is me emptying my cup…it also means na im open sa ibat ibang possibilities…sure na a full cup will not have the capacity to hold anymore ideas kung sasalinan so its important na we fill our cup with as much true things as possible…u think na when i say i dont know is that im not open na anymore… thats not the case… i think theists are the ones who are coming in with their cup filled already…

People asking questions can have different agendas.. thats true… but if malakas conviction mo sa paniniwala mo.. and it has a solid foundation then kahit being ask questions about should not be a problem..

Sometimes i would ask really simple question like personal opinions or feelings lang to know where they stand not as a believer but as a person as well…and syempre so we can relate to each other sa human level… madami nman din na believer pero honest pa din na nasasabi na they certain doubts or there are things that they dont agree with sa teachings sa kanila which is great…atleast they are being honest and humble about how they think and feel…that actually prompts them to learn and try to understand what they believe in more… it could either strengthen their belief or weaken it or lose it altogether… that too, is just a matter of understanding..

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

I have to disagree with u na for you eh di sapat un.. me saying “i dont know” like u said is me emptying my cup…it also means na im open sa ibat ibang possibilities…sure na a full cup will not have the capacity to hold anymore ideas kung sasalinan so its important na we fill our cup with as much true things as possible…u think na when i say i dont know is that im not open na anymore… thats not the case… i think theists are the ones who are coming in with their cup filled already…

I dont see how that is a disagreement. I probably misunderstood where you are exactly coming from.. maybe I put there a word or two that made it false for you. But we are talking about the same thing. Yes, i will not disagree na maraming theist already have a full cup, sadly, sometimes filled with a corrupted version of their said religion. But it goes both ways. Maybe you have a full cup on how you view religion itself, kaya napakahirap buksan ang isip sa kung ano man ang kaya ioffer sayo ng religion mo.

People asking questions can have different agendas.. thats true… but if malakas conviction mo sa paniniwala mo.. and it has a solid foundation then kahit being ask questions about should not be a problem..

Nothing wrong with this statement at all.
Its the idea behind it ang tingin ko mali. Ang debate naging form of entertainment nlng. Lahat tayo prone magtanong para lang makakuha ng kaunting satisfaction sa isang "gotcha" moment. Personally guilty ako jan. Baka bukas lang ginagawa ko na din yan e. Haha, Pero In fairness sa mga JW, they have my respect on that area. They (usually) know when to not entertain a question. Kung minsan din nmn na madala ng emosyon sablay din.
Kasi, In contrast, eto frustrations ko din sa theists(Syempre kaya nga ako atheist diba). Nakakalungkot kasi pag nakakakita ako ng mga religious leaders na gagawa nlng ng kung anong paliwanag, mental gymnastics at kung ano ano pa, just to satisfy answering a question, na kahit nmn ano sagot dun, hindi ito makakapag fulfill ng enlightenment, in a true deeper sense. They just want to display conviction kahit wala nmn nang sense. Mind you, televised pa.

Sometimes i would ask really simple question like personal opinions or feelings lang to know where they stand not as a believer but as a person as well…and syempre so we can relate to each other sa human level… madami nman din na believer pero honest pa din na nasasabi na they certain doubts or there are things that they dont agree with sa teachings sa kanila which is great…atleast they are being honest and humble about how they think and feel…that actually prompts them to learn and try to understand what they believe in more… it could either strengthen their belief or weaken it or lose it altogether… that too, is just a matter of understanding..

I have the same qualms about them. But i understand them. Kasama na din kasi dun ung part na may burden sila na representative sila ng religion nila at hindi sila pwede lumabas sa turo sakanila/bible. It is a disadvantage in my opinion. Pero madali din mamisinterpret na pagmamataas.

 

[jayendecastro]

I dont see how that is a disagreement. I probably misunderstood where you are exactly coming from.. maybe I put there a word or two that made it false for you. But we are talking about the same thing. Yes, i will not disagree na maraming theist already have a full cup, sadly, sometimes filled with a corrupted version of their said religion. But it goes both ways. Maybe you have a full cup on how you view religion itself, kaya napakahirap buksan ang isip sa kung ano man ang kaya ioffer sayo ng religion mo.

I disagreed dun sa sinabi mo na u agree na di sapat ang i dont know answer… thats the part i addressed dun sa reply ko…

I came from religion so i have an idea of what they can offer… they offer a community… some set of moral and life guidelines…i get that.. pero its a fact that they offer more than that…they are offering salvation which i dont think i need…they offer worship to a god whom they cannot convince me is real… the thing is,,,when theist ask u to consider and be open dun sa salvation and worship sa god nila…most of them will not be open na gawin yun towards other beliefs or god… most of them will not be open to the possibility of those things not being necessary at all…

Nothing wrong with this statement at all.
Its the idea behind it ang tingin ko mali. Ang debate naging form of entertainment nlng. Lahat tayo prone magtanong para lang makakuha ng kaunting satisfaction sa isang "gotcha" moment. Personally guilty ako jan. Baka bukas lang ginagawa ko na din yan e. Haha, Pero In fairness sa mga JW, they have my respect on that area. They (usually) know when to not entertain a question. Kung minsan din nmn na madala ng emosyon sablay din.

A lot including me din nman have that tendency to wanna be win or maging tama… thats how many people approach a debate or a forum… pero we have to look at it as a learning process as well.. na iaccept natin ung possibilty na we can be wrong…
Even yang sinabi mo na minsan pag emosyonal pd magkamali..and thats fine… emotions can cloud our judgement just like our beliefs and biases can… thats the beauty of it though,, when someone points out our mistake or we realized those mistakes ourselves… mas matuto tayo…

Answering questions or not is entirely up to them..but as long as they are preaching their doctrines to everyone…or criticizing ibang doctrines then they are opening themselves up for criticism….

Kasi, In contrast, eto frustrations ko din sa theists(Syempre kaya nga ako atheist diba). Nakakalungkot kasi pag nakakakita ako ng mga religious leaders na gagawa nlng ng kung anong paliwanag, mental gymnastics at kung ano ano pa, just to satisfy answering a question, na kahit nmn ano sagot dun, hindi ito makakapag fulfill ng enlightenment, in a true deeper sense. They just want to display conviction kahit wala nmn nang sense. Mind you, televised pa.


I have the same qualms about them. But i understand them. Kasama na din kasi dun ung part na may burden sila na representative sila ng religion nila at hindi sila pwede lumabas sa turo sakanila/bible. It is a disadvantage in my opinion. Pero madali din mamisinterpret na pagmamataas.

Gets ko din toh… i was there once… na ung ientertain lang ung im stepping out ng konti sa teaching skin is scary na for me…

Its a hindrance for them true…and gets ko na they are not comfortable na magskate sa edge ng turo sa knila… but gets mo ba how it’s ridiculous na they will ask u to consider this and that according sa perspective nila but they cant do the same…

I dont see most of it as pangmamataas, although some are that way, pero i see it as dishonesty and hypocrisy eh.. ung they want me to relate to them in a theistic level pero they woudnt meet me halfway man lang sana and view things sa perspective ng non-theist…

True yang sa mga televangelist lalo na jan sa US… minsan cringy pa…

 

[Cerebellum]

busy pa kaya di makareply nang matino

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

I disagreed dun sa sinabi mo na u agree na di sapat ang i dont know answer… thats the part i addressed dun sa reply ko…

I see. Inexplain ko lng dyan kung bakit kulang sa pananaw ng iba "ung i dont know". Kasi nga it follows na you have to fill your cup. I understand na nandun ka na din pala.

and gets ko na they are not comfortable na magskate sa edge ng turo sa knila… but gets mo ba how it’s ridiculous na they will ask u to consider this and that according sa perspective nila but they cant do the same…

Madali sa atin atheist sabihin yan kasi we have nothing at stake. To them its their world view. I think, Point of view nila sinasagip nila tayo, at we should not pull them down. Yan tlga ung disadvantage nila. If ikaw nmn din nasa ganun position, best move mo lang is piliin mo kung sino gusto magpasagip diba. Tayo pag natalo ang views natin, then aanib lang tayo sakanila. Kaya no foul sakin yan. It wasnt a fair game.

Its a hindrance for them true…and gets ko na they are not comfortable na magskate sa edge ng turo sa knila… but gets mo ba how it’s ridiculous na they will ask u to consider this and that according sa perspective nila but they cant do the same…

I dont see most of it as pangmamataas, although some are that way, pero i see it as dishonesty and hypocrisy eh.. ung they want me to relate to them in a theistic level pero they woudnt meet me halfway man lang sana and view things sa perspective ng non-theist…

First glance ridiculous nga. Pero gaya nga ng sabi ko it is not a fair game.
At alam ko yan sinasabi mo dishonesty and hypocrisy. Hindi ganyan tingin ko.
May wierd tendency kasi tayo na diba ang alam natin "sinabi mo ang isang bagay dahil yun laman ng isip mo" may tendency yan magreverse na "yan na ang iniisip mo dahil yan ang sinabi mo"
So they have to be really careful sa bawat sasabihin nila.

 

[Cerebellum]

Are we gonna look away sa mga bad things sa bible because the core message is good??

Actually, kaming mga estudyante ng Bibliya, (as JW's), nababasa din namin yung mga nakasulat na 'yan sa Bible

Katunayan, natututo kami sa mga ulat na nakasulat dito. Pero itinuturing namin ang mga ulat na yan (yung bad things) as "warning examples" ..

For example, nung makagawa ng imoralidad ang napakaraming Israelita noon bago makapasok sa Lupang pangako, sinasabi ng Bibliya na:

1 Cor. 10:11 Ngayon ang mga bagay na ito na nangyari sa kanila ay nagsisilbing halimbawa at isinulat para maging babala sa atin na nabubuhay sa wakas ng sistemang ito.

Yung mga itinuturing ng iba na 'graphic content' from Bible eh hindi namin sine-set aside, pero itinuturing namin iyon as 'warning examples' para huwag namin iyon gawin, gaya ng sinabi dya'n sa 1 Cor. 10:11.

Pero dahil ba sa ipinasulat iyon ng Diyos sa Bibliya eh gusto na niya yung mga bagay na 'yon?

Hindi.

Isaisip mo 'to paps. Di 'ba, may kasabihan nga, not sure kung tama, "learn from other's mistakes"?

Halimbawa, inireport sa TV na maraming namatay sa hostage taking sa Quirino Grand Stand, tapos kinuwento mo yon sa mga anak mo, iisipin ba ng mga anak mo na gustong-gusto mo yung nangyari?

Pero kung sinabi mo sa mga anak mo yan, or, nagmessage ka sa kanila na "wag niyong gagayahin 'yan" and kinuwento mo pa yung nangyari, iisipin ba ng mga anak mo na gusto mo yung mga minessage mo sa kanila or binibigyan mo lang sila ng 'babala'?

Sa totoo lang, hindi kimi ang Bibliya sa gayong mga content. Sinasabi lang nito ang gayong mga ulat na para sa nagpasulat nito, ang Diyos, eh 'warning examples' para sa mga lingkod niya. Because that what He 'thinks' eh makakatulong para sa mga lingkod niya. Kung iba iyon sa 'thinking' mo, hindi Diyos yung mag-aadjust or kami ang mag-aadjust. Nauunawaan namin na ang mga ulat na iyon ay 'warning examples' lamang.

what is the “core message” of the bible exactly??

About sa core message naman. Ayon sa pagkakaunawa namin sa buong Bibliya, ang core message nito ay tungkol sa Soberanya (pamamahala) ng Diyos, kung paano iyon siniraang-puri, at kung paano iyon ibabalik thru His Kingdom (Kaharian ng Diyos). From the first prophecy nito sa Gen. 3:15, eh konektado lahat ng nakasulat sa hulang iyan hanggang sa huling aklat, yung Apocalipsis.

Gen. 3:15 At maglalagay ako ng alitan sa pagitan mo at ng babae at sa pagitan ng supling mo at ng supling niya. Dudurugin ng supling niya ang ulo mo, at susugatan mo ito sa sakong.”

Apoc. 20:1-3
At nakita ko ang isang anghel na bumababa mula sa langit hawak ang susi ng kalaliman at isang malaking kadena. Sinunggaban niya ang dragon, ang orihinal na ahas, ang Diyablo at Satanas, at iginapos ito sa loob ng 1,000 taon. At inihagis niya ito sa kalaliman at isinara iyon at tinatakan ang pasukan, para hindi na nito mailigaw ang mga bansa hanggang sa matapos ang 1,000 taon. Pagkatapos, pakakawalan ito nang kaunting panahon.

At yamang si Kristo, na siyang pangunahing 'binhi' na tinukoy sa Gen. 3:15 ang tumutupad at tutupad sa prophecy na iyan (Gal. 3:16; 2 Cor. 1:19, 20) lahat ng iba pang ulat sa Bibliya ay konektado dapat kay Kristo.

Roma 10:17
Kaya nagkakaroon lang ng pananampalataya kapag narinig ang mensahe; at naririnig ang mensahe kapag may nagsalita tungkol kay Kristo.

Kaya, yamang hindi naman isinisiwalat sa iba pang itinuturing na 'sacred books' ng other religion yung tungkol sa pagsilang ng pangunahing 'binhi' na iyan, at kung paano kikilos ang binhi na iyon ayon sa nilayon ni Jehova, kung kaya hindi rin kami nag-aaksaya ng oras para alamin pa ang content ng mga iyon. (Though, may ilan marahil na nakagawa na ng gayon, pero sa part ko, hindi pa)

To simplify it, ang core message ng Bible ay: Ang Diyos na Jehova ang may karapatang mamahala. Ang pamamahala niya ang pinakamabuti. Matutupad ang layunin niya para sa lupa at sa mga tao.

As a whole, nakikita namin ang Bibliya na walang tiyak na salungatan (bagaman sang-ayon kami na kulang sa mga impormasyon), gaya ng sabi sa isa kong komento:

He realizes that the Bible is one harmonious whole, and so exercises care that he does not ignore the context in which the Bible as a whole presents a particular event or situation

the Bible provides enough information about the personality, ways and dealings of Jehovah to enable us to know the kind of God he is. Therefore, even when the details are not spelled out in any given situation, why should anyone become upset, thinking that God is unloving, unmerciful or unjust? To do so would be to deny the abundant evidence in the Bible as a whole that he is a loving, merciful and just God.—Ex. 34:6, 7; Isa. 63:7-9.

Sagutin ko sa sunod to paps ah, busy pa

pd mo din iconsider ung possibility na understanding mo or understanding now jw might also be wrong since pare pareho lang na “tao lang” tayo after all…

 

[jayendecastro]

Madali sa atin atheist sabihin yan kasi we have nothing at stake. To them its their world view. I think, Point of view nila sinasagip nila tayo, at we should not pull them down. Yan tlga ung disadvantage nila. If ikaw nmn din nasa ganun position, best move mo lang is piliin mo kung sino gusto magpasagip diba. Tayo pag natalo ang views natin, then aanib lang tayo sakanila. Kaya no foul sakin yan. It wasnt a fair game.

How is that pulling them down?? I saw that Cerebellum liked your post here… so im guessing he agrees with u na me criticizing and questioning them is basically me pulling them down… what about sa mga instances na sila ang naccriticize ng mga atheists?? Or their other fellow theists na ibang doctrine ang finafollow? Are they pulling them down din??

Personally ako at ikaw as atheist sguro pd nga na walang at stake for us kung hayaan lang natin ung worldview nila at maconvince nila tayo… they are preaching their doctrines and criticizing others to prove a point na tama ang perspective nila and others are wrong… they are taking a chance na may tumanggap ng turo nila and maconvince to prescribe to the same world view that they have…so they should be allowed to take that chance to change others but i should not question them kasi its bringing them down??

Pag yang mga criticism nila about christmas, saints and statues, etc… thats them pulling others down right?? Or do u look at jw with such high regard na when ganan sila is totally different from what im doing?? If thats the case then gets ko na why u said its not really a fair game.

First glance ridiculous nga. Pero gaya nga ng sabi ko it is not a fair game.
At alam ko yan sinasabi mo dishonesty and hypocrisy. Hindi ganyan tingin ko.
May wierd tendency kasi tayo na diba ang alam natin "sinabi mo ang isang bagay dahil yun laman ng isip mo" may tendency yan magreverse na "yan na ang iniisip mo dahil yan ang sinabi mo"
So they have to be really careful sa bawat sasabihin nila.

Careful to what?? Incriminate themselves? Na mahanapan ng butas?? Like i said, kung solid ang foundation ng paniniwala nila hindi na issue dapat ang criticism or question ng iba…

And they are not so careful sa paghahanap ng butas sa iba…pagpopoint na mali sa iba…

If thats not hypocrisy then i dont know what is…

Again ur comment about my criticism sa sinasbi ni guys like si TS eh babalik din sa pag sila ang critical sa iba…

U know j peterson so ill quote something he said…

“in order to be able to think..you have to risk being offensive”

I hope people like you see it that way.. na if we want people to think about what we are saying then we have to risk offending others…just as we are risking to be offended..

 

[Cerebellum]

uy, di porke't ni-like ko yung comment eh yun na din views ko .. some portion of comments dito eh nila-like ko kahit may ilang part na di ako sang-ayon ..

Sige i can consider na i cannot comprehend ung thinking and ways ni god…if thats the case na ibang level si god sa mga tao… but can u do the same thing as well?? Na since ibang level nga si god at perhaps we cannot fathom ung power at knowledge then perhaps pd mo din iconsider ung possibility na understanding mo or understanding now jw might also be wrong since pare pareho lang na “tao lang” tayo after all…

Puwede naman. Okay, sige, ico-consider kong possible na mali ako ng pagkaunawa sa mga bagay na yan. But let me ask you too paps ...

Tingin mo, if there is no one on Earth who can understand/comprehend the word of God, since tao lang tayo, why Jehovah allowed to write his message sa Bible kung wala naman palang sinuman ang makakaunawa ng mga salita niya?

Now, consider this verse paps,

Efeso 5:17
huwag na kayong maging di-makatuwiran, kundi patuloy ninyong alamin kung ano ang kalooban ni Jehova.

Bakit sasabihin ni Pablo na 'patuloy na alamin ang kalooban ni Jehova' kung wala namang sinuman ang makakaunawa nito?

John 17:3 and this is what the eternal life is, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Bakit sasabihin ni Jesus na ang pagkaalam sa tunay na Diyos at sa kaniya ay nangangahulugan ng buhay na walang-hanggan kung wala naman palang sinuman ang makakaalam kung sino talaga sila? Mangangahulugan iyon na hindi rin totoo yung buhay na walang hanggan na inaalok nila kasi yun pa nga lang first step para makakuha no'n eh imposible ng magawa.

Tingin mo, may sense kaya yung kamatayan ni Jesus, yung isakripisyo ang buhay niya para sa mga tao, then, magsasabi siya na ang pagkaalam sa kaniya at sa tunay na Diyos means eternal life kung imposible naman palang malaman ang katotohanan tungkol sa kanila kasi tao lang tayo?

Kaya nga yung tanong ko po sa'yo, kung naco-consider mo yung ibang katangian/kakayahan ng Diyos, why don't you consider na He can give understanding/insight sa mga tao?

Consider this verse too:

Awit 32:8 “Bibigyan kita ng kaunawaan at ituturo ko sa iyo ang daan na dapat mong lakaran. Papayuhan kita habang nakatingin ako sa iyo."

Kayang magbigay ng kaunawaan ni Jehova sa mga taong handang magpakumbaba na tanggapin yung mga itinuturo niya, primarily, from his words.

Kung hindi niya naman pala kayang ibigay yung kaunawaang iyon sa mga tao, para saan pa na ipinasulat niya yung Bible kung wala naman palang makakaunawa nito?

Actually, ang puso talaga (o, buong kalooban, saloobin, kaisipan) ng isang tao ang inaabot ng mensahe ng Bible, kaya, kung hindi magpapakumbaba ang isang tao sa pagtanggap nung mga itinuturo ni Jehova mula sa Bible, hinding-hindi niya mauunawaan ang salita ng Diyos at ituturing pa nga niya iyon hindi bilang 'salita ng Diyos', kundi basta aklat lamang.

Heb. 4:12 Dahil ang salita ng Diyos ay buháy at malakas at mas matalas kaysa sa anumang espada na magkabila ang talim, at sa talas nito ay kaya nitong paghiwalayin ang panlabas at panloob na pagkatao, at ang mga kasukasuan at mga utak sa buto, at kaya nitong unawain ang mga kaisipan at ng puso.

im asking u as an individual.. kung pano gagawin mo kung ikaw ang magpapakalat ng isang message accurately and widespread to everyone…suggestion mo lang…

If I have the authority to do this, I will do this properly. Kung CEO ako ng isang kompanya, sang-ayon ka naman siguro na hindi ko kailangang kausapin yung bawat isang employee para maging malinaw lang sa kanila yung "message" ko para sa lahat ng mga empleyado?

Ano sa tingin mo gagawin ko?

Sang-ayon ka siguro na ipapadaan ko yon sa mga under ko? Since I trusted my supervisors and managers, expected kong malinaw nilang maipapaalam sa mga employee yung message ko.

Pero dahil hindi sapat yung verbal message sa isang company, kinakailangan kong ipasulat bawat memo and agenda na mapag-uusapan ng committee ng kompanya ko para malaman yon ng mga empleyado, nasa taas man o nasa baba. Organized kumbaga. So, dadaan pa din talaga sa mga tauhan ko.

Kung may tanong yung mga empleyado, puwede silang tumingin sa mga memo ng company para mapaalalahanan sila kung ano yung pinapasabi ko or puwede rin nila kausapin yung mga supervisor and managers. Hindi na nila kailangan pang pumunta sa office ko. At ako, bilang CEO, tiwala akong malinaw yung mga memo na ibinababa sa mga empleyado. Kasi, kung hindi, I will remove those employees na hindi sumusunod or pumipilipit pa nga sa message ko. Kasi may authority naman ako eh.

Tingin mo ba, pananatilihin ko sa company yung mga may "hidden agenda" at pumipilipit sa message ko para sa lahat ng empleyado? Makakasira sila sa ipinapababa kong message/memo para sa mga employee ko.

Yan yung suggestion ko kung gusto kong ipaalam yung message ko .. ang settings ko ay isa akong CEO ng company .. empleyado ko mga member ng phcorner

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

How is that pulling them down?? I saw that Cerebellum liked your post here… so im guessing he agrees with u na me criticizing and questioning them is basically me pulling them down… what about sa mga instances na sila ang naccriticize ng mga atheists?? Or their other fellow theists na ibang doctrine ang finafollow? Are they pulling them down din??

Personally ako at ikaw as atheist sguro pd nga na walang at stake for us kung hayaan lang natin ung worldview nila at maconvince nila tayo… they are preaching their doctrines and criticizing others to prove a point na tama ang perspective nila and others are wrong… they are taking a chance na may tumanggap ng turo nila and maconvince to prescribe to the same world view that they have…so they should be allowed to take that chance to change others but i should not question them kasi its bringing them down??

Pag yang mga criticism nila about christmas, saints and statues, etc… thats them pulling others down right?? Or do u look at jw with such high regard na when ganan sila is totally different from what im doing?? If thats the case then gets ko na why u said its not really a fair game.

Careful to what?? Incriminate themselves? Na mahanapan ng butas?? Like i said, kung solid ang foundation ng paniniwala nila hindi na issue dapat ang criticism or question ng iba…

And they are not so careful sa paghahanap ng butas sa iba…pagpopoint na mali sa iba…

If thats not hypocrisy then i dont know what is…

Again ur comment about my criticism sa sinasbi ni guys like si TS eh babalik din sa pag sila ang critical sa iba…

U know j peterson so ill quote something he said…

“in order to be able to think..you have to risk being offensive”

I hope people like you see it that way.. na if we want people to think about what we are saying then we have to risk offending others…just as we are risking to be offended..

Wala nmn ako sinabing you should not question them. Karapatan mo nmn yan, at likewise karapatan din nya hindi ka sagutin.
I just understand their reason.

No i dont put them in any higher regard. I just treat their belief with equal respect as mine at pati ng ibang theist as much as possible. Its better to argue without the prejudice, and fair manner.

Yung mga criticism mo sa JW, nakikita ko din yan. Hindi ko lng na criticize pa dahil hindi yun topic dito sa thread na ito. Exlusively for now, agree ako sa kanya. Its about the bible diba. Pag napunta tayo sa topic na magkaiba kami dun ko sya ccriticize. Mas maganda din nmn ung one topic at a time. Pra may pupuntahan.

Oo agree ako kay JP, but with caveat. You should have a better reason to be offensive than the offense you made. Pag puro offense lang, bastos lng labas. Inelaborate din nmn yan ni JP.
Diba mas maganda din nmn satin atheist na ma dispell natin ung idea na nanggugulo lng tayo pag nagsimula tayo magtanong?

 

[jayendecastro]

Actually, kaming mga estudyante ng Bibliya, (as JW's), nababasa din namin yung mga nakasulat na 'yan sa Bible

Katunayan, natututo kami sa mga ulat na nakasulat dito. Pero itinuturing namin ang mga ulat na yan (yung bad things) as "warning examples" ..

For example, nung makagawa ng imoralidad ang napakaraming Israelita noon bago makapasok sa Lupang pangako, sinasabi ng Bibliya na:

1 Cor. 10:11 Ngayon ang mga bagay na ito na nangyari sa kanila ay nagsisilbing halimbawa at isinulat para maging babala sa atin na nabubuhay sa wakas ng sistemang ito.

Yung mga itinuturing ng iba na 'graphic content' from Bible eh hindi namin sine-set aside, pero itinuturing namin iyon as 'warning examples' para huwag namin iyon gawin, gaya ng sinabi dya'n sa 1 Cor. 10:11.

Yang mga sinasabi mo na “warning examples” eh alam ko nman and there are indeed stories sa bible na like i said eh pd maging life or moral ng standards ng isang tao… no problem with that..

I don’t get lang ung term na ginamit mo… “warning examples”… do u mean na they can be either a warning or an example??

Anw,,di nman ung mga stories na may makukuhang examples ang tinutukoy ko na bad things.. although some rules dun na supposedly eh warning sa violators are barbaric and di nman na pinapraktis today… im pointing to stories like slavery…incëst.. rapë…genocide…child murdër… what “warning examples” are we supposed to get from those??
Do u think that they are just simply “graphic” or do u think they are actually bad?

Pero dahil ba sa ipinasulat iyon ng Diyos sa Bibliya eh gusto na niya yung mga bagay na 'yon?

Hindi.

Isaisip mo 'to paps. Di 'ba, may kasabihan nga, not sure kung tama, "learn from other's mistakes"?

Halimbawa, inireport sa TV na maraming namatay sa hostage taking sa Quirino Grand Stand, tapos kinuwento mo yon sa mga anak mo, iisipin ba ng mga anak mo na gustong-gusto mo yung nangyari?

Pero kung sinabi mo sa mga anak mo yan, or, nagmessage ka sa kanila na "wag niyong gagayahin 'yan" and kinuwento mo pa yung nangyari, iisipin ba ng mga anak mo na gusto mo yung mga minessage mo sa kanila or binibigyan mo lang sila ng 'babala'?

Ganda ng sinabi mo… “learn from other’s mistakes”

So are those people or perhaps even some of us now only mere “examples” and “warnings” for others?? Na un lang ang role nila sa plan ni god?

If we think of the bible as a story book lang di sguro masama isipin na those people na pinatay at pinarusahan sa bible are just mere examples…but for you na naniniwala na bible is a book of factual events eh ur okay na sabihin yan na “warning examples” lang ung role nung mga lives na un?? And take note that god himself was responsible for most of those deaths by example…

And that analogy bout sa dad ang hostage taking… its quite different… that father had no control of that event from happening… isa pa about jan is kung ako ung tatay… i will explain to my child why that happened tell him that its bad.. and that violence is not the answer just because others dont agree with us or does not give us what we want… was god that forgiving??

To simplify it, ang core message ng Bible ay: Ang Diyos na Jehova ang may karapatang mamahala. Ang pamamahala niya ang pinakamabuti. Matutupad ang layunin niya para sa lupa at sa mga tao.

Thanks for answering finally ung sa core message…

Bout that eh jan nga ung contention ko…if thats the message that the bible wants me to believe then i have to be convinced first about god’s existence…after than i have to consider ung ibang parts ng message if pd ngang tanggapin kasi even those things madami din ako questions eh…

As for understanding of that core message… do u think other bible based religions have that same message as u or iba iba din??

Mya ulet after ko luto… tiga-luto mode let eh.. hahahaha

uy, di porke't ni-like ko yung comment eh yun na din views ko .. some portion of comments dito eh nila-like ko kahit may ilang part na di ako sang-ayon ..



Puwede naman. Okay, sige, ico-consider kong possible na mali ako ng pagkaunawa sa mga bagay na yan. But let me ask you too paps ...

Tingin mo, if there is no one on Earth who can understand/comprehend the word of God, since tao lang tayo, why Jehovah allowed to write his message sa Bible kung wala naman palang sinuman ang makakaunawa ng mga salita niya?

Now, consider this verse paps,

Efeso 5:17
huwag na kayong maging di-makatuwiran, kundi patuloy ninyong alamin kung ano ang kalooban ni Jehova.

Bakit sasabihin ni Pablo na 'patuloy na alamin ang kalooban ni Jehova' kung wala namang sinuman ang makakaunawa nito?

John 17:3 and this is what the eternal life is, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Bakit sasabihin ni Jesus na ang pagkaalam sa tunay na Diyos at sa kaniya ay nangangahulugan ng buhay na walang-hanggan kung wala naman palang sinuman ang makakaalam kung sino talaga sila? Mangangahulugan iyon na hindi rin totoo yung buhay na walang hanggan na inaalok nila kasi yun pa nga lang first step para makakuha no'n eh imposible ng magawa.

Tingin mo, may sense kaya yung kamatayan ni Jesus, yung isakripisyo ang buhay niya para sa mga tao, then, magsasabi siya na ang pagkaalam sa kaniya at sa tunay na Diyos means eternal life kung imposible naman palang malaman ang katotohanan tungkol sa kanila kasi tao lang tayo?

Kaya nga yung tanong ko po sa'yo, kung naco-consider mo yung ibang katangian/kakayahan ng Diyos, why don't you consider na He can give understanding/insight sa mga tao?

Consider this verse too:

Awit 32:8 “Bibigyan kita ng kaunawaan at ituturo ko sa iyo ang daan na dapat mong lakaran. Papayuhan kita habang nakatingin ako sa iyo."

Kayang magbigay ng kaunawaan ni Jehova sa mga taong handang magpakumbaba na tanggapin yung mga itinuturo niya, primarily, from his words.

Kung hindi niya naman pala kayang ibigay yung kaunawaang iyon sa mga tao, para saan pa na ipinasulat niya yung Bible kung wala naman palang makakaunawa nito?

Actually, ang puso talaga (o, buong kalooban, saloobin, kaisipan) ng isang tao ang inaabot ng mensahe ng Bible, kaya, kung hindi magpapakumbaba ang isang tao sa pagtanggap nung mga itinuturo ni Jehova mula sa Bible, hinding-hindi niya mauunawaan ang salita ng Diyos at ituturing pa nga niya iyon hindi bilang 'salita ng Diyos', kundi basta aklat lamang.

Heb. 4:12 Dahil ang salita ng Diyos ay buháy at malakas at mas matalas kaysa sa anumang espada na magkabila ang talim, at sa talas nito ay kaya nitong paghiwalayin ang panlabas at panloob na pagkatao, at ang mga kasukasuan at mga utak sa buto, at kaya nitong unawain ang mga kaisipan at ng puso.

Aling part ang iconsider mo na mali ang pang unawa mo?? Na mali ang turo ng jw or ung sinasabi mo lang… kung yung sa sariling pagkakaunawa mo lang ang kinokonsider mong mali kaya mo bang iconsider din na baka mali ang doctrines ng jw?? Iconsider na tama ang ibang religion… i consider na walang dios at all…

Ur going at it agad kasi na god allowed his book to be written by some people eh as if thats an established fact… it isnt.. part pa din yan nung claim sa bible…

And besides..u introduced the verse about iba ang kaisipan at pamamaraan ni god… so which one is ba talaga?? Do we have the capacity to understand god’s way and thinking or not?? Or nakadepende yan sa pinaguusapan kung madali itawid we understand..kung hindi nman.. we cant… bakit may inconsistency pa din??

Sguro yang pagpapakumbaba at bukas ang kalooban sa bible pd mo iattribute skin… pero pano ung sa ibang naniniwala din ng buong puso…super humble din pero iba ang paniniwala sa inyo?? How come you guys are not receiving the same understanding?? False prophets ba?? Eh kung those prophets as well eh naniniwala lang din nman ng buong puso at humility din??Pare pareho lang nman kayo ng tingin sa isat isa…

Nung times na mali ang “interpretation” nyo sa prophecies… ano un di kayo humble enough ba by that time kaya mali??

This part.. “Actually, ang puso talaga (o, buong kalooban, saloobin, kaisipan) ng isang tao ang inaabot ng mensahe” this is what im hinting at about how god should send him message.. explain ko pa sa baba pagreply ko CEO post mo…

.If I have the authority to do this, I will do this properly. Kung CEO ako ng isang kompanya, sang-ayon ka naman siguro na hindi ko kailangang kausapin yung bawat isang employee para maging malinaw lang sa kanila yung "message" ko para sa lahat ng mga empleyado?

Ano sa tingin mo gagawin ko?

Sang-ayon ka siguro na ipapadaan ko yon sa mga under ko? Since I trusted my supervisors and managers, expected kong malinaw nilang maipapaalam sa mga employee yung message ko.

Pero dahil hindi sapat yung verbal message sa isang company, kinakailangan kong ipasulat bawat memo and agenda na mapag-uusapan ng committee ng kompanya ko para malaman yon ng mga empleyado, nasa taas man o nasa baba. Organized kumbaga. So, dadaan pa din talaga sa mga tauhan ko.

Kung may tanong yung mga empleyado, puwede silang tumingin sa mga memo ng company para mapaalalahanan sila kung ano yung pinapasabi ko or puwede rin nila kausapin yung mga supervisor and managers. Hindi na nila kailangan pang pumunta sa office ko. At ako, bilang CEO, tiwala akong malinaw yung mga memo na ibinababa sa mga empleyado. Kasi, kung hindi, I will remove those employees na hindi sumusunod or pumipilipit pa nga sa message ko. Kasi may authority naman ako eh.

Tingin mo ba, pananatilihin ko sa company yung mga may "hidden agenda" at pumipilipit sa message ko para sa lahat ng empleyado? Makakasira sila sa ipinapababa kong message/memo para sa mga employee ko.

Yan yung suggestion ko kung gusto kong ipaalam yung message ko .. ang settings ko ay isa akong CEO ng company .. empleyado ko mga member ng phcorner

Thats actually a good way of sending a message… pero may much better way pa to do that in a corporate setting…

May possibility ba magkaron ng problema sa setup na sinabi mo?? Yes.. pdng mamisunderstood ng supervisor mo ung message mo… pding intentionally baguhin…down the line those things can happen as well… ung trust, competency and transparency ng taga deliver ng message kung hindi man compromised eh di great…the message of the ceo will be sent across the board accurately..

I know ur trying to connect pa din kasi ung process ni god thru the bible and the prophets and perhaps sa religious leaders jan sa sample mo… but i think may much better pa.. kagaya ng apple ceo… they have convention every september or october ata…they announce their message there…u can see the actual giver of the message and u can hear straight from him…

sa sample mo pd nman magvideo conference or live stream ang ceo stating his message and everyone can see.. putting in it writing habang nakavideo sya to make if more official..naming specific individuals na designated nya as middle man…

U didnt give the best suggestion eh.. u gave a suggestion na pdng magfit sa bible narrative…

And it doesnt fit that well at all… unlike kay god.. we can verify ung existence ng ceo… unlike kay god we can have a look at the original memo and not rely on copies upon copies of revision after revision of the memo…unlike kay god the ceo kay address any misunderstanding sa memo nea by issuing another memo or making an announcement to clarify things… unlike kay god ung supervisors sa sample mo are perhaps well trained and experienced at doing their job…unlike kay god.. a ceo can and should admit kung may mali sa message nya…

Anw.. here’s my suggestion about sa pagsesend ng message in line with what u said sa taas about kalooban at kaisipan… why didnt just god made it so na imprinted na sa atin ang paniwalaan at iworship sya? Db walang confusion non.. walang misunderstanding?? Ung nasa puso na natin automatically ung core message na sinasabi mo…tell me if u think thats a bad suggestion..

Kung di agree because of freewill chorva…i dont know what to say na..kasi free will have screwed mankind over and over again sa paningin ni god…

Wala nmn ako sinabing you should not question them. Karapatan mo nmn yan, at likewise karapatan din nya hindi ka sagutin.
I just understand their reason.

No i dont put them in any higher regard. I just treat their belief with equal respect as mine at pati ng ibang theist as much as possible. Its better to argue without the prejudice, and fair manner.

Yung mga criticism mo sa JW, nakikita ko din yan. Hindi ko lng na criticize pa dahil hindi yun topic dito sa thread na ito. Exlusively for now, agree ako sa kanya. Its about the bible diba. Pag napunta tayo sa topic na magkaiba kami dun ko sya ccriticize. Mas maganda din nmn ung one topic at a time. Pra may pupuntahan.

Oo agree ako kay JP, but with caveat. You should have a better reason to be offensive than the offense you made. Pag puro offense lang, bastos lng labas. Inelaborate din nmn yan ni JP.
Diba mas maganda din nmn satin atheist na ma dispell natin ung idea na nanggugulo lng tayo pag nagsimula tayo magtanong?

I understand that… they have every right to refuse to answer any question that they dont want to… but at the very least i expect them to offer a reason as to why…

So what do you mean then sa sbi mo na “we should not pull them down”?

To be clear, im not prejudice against jw… and i think im being fair as well.. it just so happen na they are very active hir sa T&B.. they are also critical of other’s belief..in all fairness i will give the same level of criticism sa ibang sects if they were as active as cerebellum and gentleman…

Yah perhaps u agree with him and thats fine…we got slightly off track dahil dun sa “test” at “purpose” thingy… pero going back sa contradictions/misunderstanding sa bible.. for you, sino tingin mo ultimately responsible it the purpose is send an accurate message?

The statement was “risk of being offensive”… it is not to say na we should…its just a risk…I agree with… we are not asking questions to manggulo…but guess what kung ano response ni TS literally after my comment?? Wala nman hostility sa comment ko.. i understand na di nman dapat violent or insulting.. kaya nga i called out someone else dito sa pagtawag sa iba ng “idiots” eh… but im not like that… do u think panggugulo ba ung initial comment ko??