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Where Does Morality Come From?

Nakita nmn natin ang epekto ng flawed na paniniwala na yan thru nazi socialism, saka iba't ibang bersyon ng communism, which are more or less produkto ng misreading ng philosophy ni Neitzche. They are mostly from the presuppositions na ang morality ay built in sa atin. Kaya may tendency ang mga followers ni Neitzche mag reject ng ancient religions and philosophies. At ang motivation png nmn din ay dahil sa rejection ng mga dogmatic beliefs, pero msyado din na-generalized sa lahat ng religions, at nawala na ang nuances ng ibang explanations. "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater", if you will
eto na naman tayo kay Hitler at Nazism 😅 natalakay natin to sa ibang thread on different topic naman.. But now ay about morality, as par as i can remember from what ive read and learned from the different literatures about nazism and biographies of hitler wala ako natatandaan na may empazise sila sa source of morality.

Siguro ang tamang tanong ay kung bakit may radical racist ideology si Hitler at ang German National Party o Nazi, ang radical na pananaw ba na ito ay dahil sa preposupposition nila na morality ay built na sa atin? Masasagot natin yan (gaya nga ng sabi ko, ang kultura ang pinaka humuhubog/nag didikta ng moralidad ng human species) kung i tratrace natin sa ancient culture ng Teutonic tribe, the ancient tribe of germanic people, bago pa si Hitler likas na sa mga Teuton ang pagiging very loyal sa kanilang tribal lineage, which according to Plutarch they did not intercourse with other people, at nadala nila yan mula pa 19th century German Empire, bago pa naging prominent si Hitler sa polical arena ng germany ang Pan-German movements ay masigla ng nationalist political idea -- at dyan makikita natin kung papano hirap sila makisalamuha sa mga non german, they want a unified Germany-Austria kung saan mayorya ang mga German at hindi kasama ang minority na Slavs. Polish and other minority, idagdag pa natin ang impluwensya that time ng mga panulat ng mga Ariosophist na si Guido Von List and Lanz Liebenfels, and we not overlook the personal experience of Hitler yung mga pinag daanan nyang kahirapan, nasaksihan nya kung papano ang mga Aleman ay nilubog ng kahirapan dahil sa sistemang riba mga Hudyo -- iyan ang pagkaka alam ko mga bagay kung bakit radical racist ang ideology ni Hitler at ng Nazism, nadala nila ang tribalism mula sa kultura ng kanilang kanilang mga ninuo kaya madali nabulag ni Hitler ang mga Aleman, Hitler and Nazism brought german culture tribalism to it its extremism.

How can you observe the building blocks u mentioned sa isang infant??

I really cant see how morality is innate sa humans…

i much prepare the term hardwired in our brain and learned through experience

it has beginning in the brain and its chemical, but since observation and demonstration ang hinihingi mo, we cannot observe what happened inside the brain of a child, hindi natin alam ang tumatakbo sa utak ng isang bata, but we can observe the building blocks of morality in an infant through educated guess and experiments. And modern day researchers and pyshologist find a way to do that
so i will direct you on a Profesional Psychologists and Cognitive scientist Paul Bloom and his team, this is how they demonstrated that moral judgement is innate:

In one experiment, researchers showed nine- and 12-month-old infants images of a ball trying to get up a hill with either a helpful character (a square gently pushing the ball uphill) or a hindering character (a triangle pushing the ball back down). Afterward, they showed a sequence where the ball would approach either the square or the triangle. Both the nine- and 12-month-olds spent a longer amount of time looking at the images when the ball approached the hindering character than when it approached the helpful character.

According to the researchers, this indicated that the children had developed expectations of how the ball would react to the hindering character and therefore looked longer when the ball acted differently from how they’d expected.

In a second experiment, the researchers added eyes to the shapes, making them look more like people, which they used to deduce that the children were making a social judgement about the hindering character.

Critics of the experiment think it only shows that babies developed expectations of what would happen, not which shape they morally preferred.

Therefore the original researchers conducted a third experiment in which they used three-dimensional puppets instead of animated geometric shapes. Again, there was a ball either being helped or hindered by a puppet, and instead of simply using “looking measures,” the researchers adopted “reaching measures” to determine which puppet the kids preferred.

Almost all the babies reached for the helpful puppet, demonstrating their opinion of “good” and “bad” and, in doing so, an innate form of moral judgement.
 
hindi lang ang dna ang basehan ng mga atheists sa source ng morality
ahaha DNA? then people can be born with DNA encoded with moral or immoral behavior, if so then we should not praise those moral people and we should not punish those immoral people
 
ahaha DNA? then people can be born with DNA encoded with moral or immoral behavior, if so then we should not praise those moral people and we should not punish those immoral people
hindi ako nag sabi nyan ni quote ko lang ang sinabi ni TS about sa position ng atheism tungkol sa usapin ng morality. sana titignan mo yung ibang mga reply ko hindi yung mag quote ka lang ng kapiraso 😴 my position is our morality was hardwired in our brain, learned and evolved by experience which is naka depende sa kultura at religion kung saan ka sinilang
 
eto na naman tayo kay Hitler at Nazism 😅 natalakay natin to sa ibang thread on different topic naman.. But now ay about morality, as par as i can remember from what ive read and learned from the different literatures about nazism and biographies of hitler wala ako natatandaan na may empazise sila sa source of morality.

Siguro ang tamang tanong ay kung bakit may radical racist ideology si Hitler at ang German National Party o Nazi, ang radical na pananaw ba na ito ay dahil sa preposupposition nila na morality ay built na sa atin? Masasagot natin yan (gaya nga ng sabi ko, ang kultura ang pinaka humuhubog/nag didikta ng moralidad ng human species) kung i tratrace natin sa ancient culture ng Teutonic tribe, the ancient tribe of germanic people, bago pa si Hitler likas na sa mga Teuton ang pagiging very loyal sa kanilang tribal lineage, which according to Plutarch they did not intercourse with other people, at nadala nila yan mula pa 19th century German Empire, bago pa naging prominent si Hitler sa polical arena ng germany ang Pan-German movements ay masigla ng nationalist political idea -- at dyan makikita natin kung papano hirap sila makisalamuha sa mga non german, they want a unified Germany-Austria kung saan mayorya ang mga German at hindi kasama ang minority na Slavs. Polish and other minority, idagdag pa natin ang impluwensya that time ng mga panulat ng mga Ariosophist na si Guido Von List and Lanz Liebenfels, and we not overlook the personal experience of Hitler yung mga pinag daanan nyang kahirapan, nasaksihan nya kung papano ang mga Aleman ay nilubog ng kahirapan dahil sa sistemang riba mga Hudyo -- iyan ang pagkaka alam ko mga bagay kung bakit radical racist ang ideology ni Hitler at ng Nazism, nadala nila ang tribalism mula sa kultura ng kanilang kanilang mga ninuo kaya madali nabulag ni Hitler ang mga Aleman, Hitler and Nazism brought german culture tribalism to it its extremism.



i much prepare the term hardwired in our brain and learned through experience

it has beginning in the brain and its chemical, but since observation and demonstration ang hinihingi mo, we cannot observe what happened inside the brain of a child, hindi natin alam ang tumatakbo sa utak ng isang bata, but we can observe the building blocks of morality in an infant through educated guess and experiments. And modern day researchers and pyshologist find a way to do that
so i will direct you on a Profesional Psychologists and Cognitive scientist Paul Bloom and his team, this is how they demonstrated that moral judgement is innate:

In one experiment, researchers showed nine- and 12-month-old infants images of a ball trying to get up a hill with either a helpful character (a square gently pushing the ball uphill) or a hindering character (a triangle pushing the ball back down). Afterward, they showed a sequence where the ball would approach either the square or the triangle. Both the nine- and 12-month-olds spent a longer amount of time looking at the images when the ball approached the hindering character than when it approached the helpful character.

According to the researchers, this indicated that the children had developed expectations of how the ball would react to the hindering character and therefore looked longer when the ball acted differently from how they’d expected.

In a second experiment, the researchers added eyes to the shapes, making them look more like people, which they used to deduce that the children were making a social judgement about the hindering character.

Critics of the experiment think it only shows that babies developed expectations of what would happen, not which shape they morally preferred.

Therefore the original researchers conducted a third experiment in which they used three-dimensional puppets instead of animated geometric shapes. Again, there was a ball either being helped or hindered by a puppet, and instead of simply using “looking measures,” the researchers adopted “reaching measures” to determine which puppet the kids preferred.

Almost all the babies reached for the helpful puppet, demonstrating their opinion of “good” and “bad” and, in doing so, an innate form of moral judgement.
This is interesting… nagbasa ako konti about his work… ung presence ng some sort of morality sa babies for me is a small part ng eventual moral grounding ng isang individual…meron ba yang naging longterm study? Wala me makita so far eh…
 
This is interesting… nagbasa ako konti about his work… ung presence ng some sort of morality sa babies for me is a small part ng eventual moral grounding ng isang individual…meron ba yang naging longterm study? Wala me makita so far eh…
mga recent studies and experiments palang din nabasa ko, usually kasi ang mga long term experiments sa field ng Psychology
ay sa ãdül† development from adolecence until the end of human life... iba iba din ang position ng mga atheists sa usapin ng morality, yung sayo siguro katulad sa atheist philosopher ng cognitive science na si Walter Sinnot-Armstrong in his philosophy morality is a by-product—accidental, invented, human construct faculties, medyo malalim yung mga paliwanag nya na hindi ganong gamay o grasp ng utak ko, since hindi ko linya at wala ako gano interest sa napakalalim na cognitive science kaya di ko na tinapos yung pag babasa ng book nya 😅 i will suggest to you to read his book (kung di mo pa nababasa) which dealing on the topic of innateness of morality.. Moral Psychology - The Evolution of Morality: Adaption and Innateness, 600 plus pages na masakit sa ulo at nakaka ulaw basahin 😂
 
mga recent studies and experiments palang din nabasa ko, usually kasi ang mga long term experiments sa field ng Psychology
ay sa ãdül† development from adolecence until the end of human life... iba iba din ang position ng mga atheists sa usapin ng morality, yung sayo siguro katulad sa atheist philosopher ng cognitive science na si Walter Sinnot-Armstrong in his philosophy morality is a by-product—accidental, invented, human construct faculties, medyo malalim yung mga paliwanag nya na hindi ganong gamay o grasp ng utak ko, since hindi ko linya at wala ako gano interest sa napakalalim na cognitive science kaya di ko na tinapos yung pag babasa ng book nya 😅 i will suggest to you to read his book (kung di mo pa nababasa) which dealing on the topic of innateness of morality.. Moral Psychology - The Evolution of Morality: Adaption and Innateness, 600 plus pages na masakit sa ulo at nakaka ulaw basahin 😂
waah...haba.. ill try to look it up pag ,may time... busy at dami projects ngayon.. about what u mentioned that its a by-product of many factors i think that how i see it. i also think na in terms of genetics or sa brain itself in relation to morality i think na may something sa genes or brain ng tao na hinders his adaptation sa morality na neexposed sya.. i remember reading something like that many years ago eh di ko lang maala which one specifically.. but yeah..i think it would be interesting to see your mga sample babies dun sa research na nabanggit mo kung how they will turn out eventually
 
hindi ako nag sabi nyan ni quote ko lang ang sinabi ni TS about sa position ng atheism tungkol sa usapin ng morality. sana titignan mo yung ibang mga reply ko hindi yung mag quote ka lang ng kapiraso 😴 my position is our morality was hardwired in our brain, learned and evolved by experience which is naka depende sa kultura at religion kung saan ka sinilang
ehehe oo nga akala ko DNA believer ka din, ewan ko lang sa mga DNA believers if they are willing to stop punishing immoral acts which they claim written in the DNA naman pala, i would say i am born with immoral DNA hehe at yung mga moral individuals ay di dapat i-praise kasi hindi naman talaga sila nag effort na maging moral kundi they are born with moral behavior in the DNA
 
mga recent studies and experiments palang din nabasa ko, usually kasi ang mga long term experiments sa field ng Psychology
ay sa ãdül† development from adolecence until the end of human life... iba iba din ang position ng mga atheists sa usapin ng morality, yung sayo siguro katulad sa atheist philosopher ng cognitive science na si Walter Sinnot-Armstrong in his philosophy morality is a by-product—accidental, invented, human construct faculties, medyo malalim yung mga paliwanag nya na hindi ganong gamay o grasp ng utak ko, since hindi ko linya at wala ako gano interest sa napakalalim na cognitive science kaya di ko na tinapos yung pag babasa ng book nya 😅 i will suggest to you to read his book (kung di mo pa nababasa) which dealing on the topic of innateness of morality.. Moral Psychology - The Evolution of Morality: Adaption and Innateness, 600 plus pages na masakit sa ulo at nakaka ulaw basahin 😂
That is interesting. Titingnan ko yan minsan.

Pero for now, what makes sense for me is, kung meron man something innate sa mga tao, yan ung personality natin, interests and motivation. But morality will be defined by the greater society, kasi dito nakasalalay ung tibay nung structure ng society na ito, as a group. Ideally, the society should have a morality compatible to cater to this different personality types.

So in a way, dapat i-view ang buong society as one organism, maisasalpak siya sa darwinian theory of natural selection. Kasi kung individualistic titignan ang tao, we really dont fit well in the theory. We are technically just a weaker version of apes wtih more capacity to think abstractly, ganun.
 
What is moral to your culture might be immoral to others. We have been taught from our childhood what is acceptable and what is not but our morality could change in every stages on our life.
 
Morality......... kase...... I remember na meron some children na ipinalaki ng hayop. Totoo siya. Walang human contact pero ang ka-contact niya ay ang kung sinong hayop na nagpalaki sa kanya which is totoo. Meron mga ganoon cases so ang morality is kung ano ang na influence nito sa kapwa niya hayop but the only problem kase ay biological na human po ang bata. So hardwire na sa brain ng bata hanggang naging ãdül† , yung hobby , yung kung paano magbehave and so on and so forth. Bagkus yung animal language ay alam niya galing sa kung sinong hayop na nagpalaki sa mismong bata kung saan nagkakaintindihan pa sila.

Yung palabas ng Tarzan na katulad nito.​


Totoo na meron cases na ganyan. Meron ilan kid na walang human contact pagkatapos ang nagpalaki sa kanya ay mismong hayop po. Sakaling back up ng psychologist ng ganyan , since baby pa na ipinalaki ng kung sino hayop na nagpalaki sa kanya , high percentage ay wala na siyang hope para magbago at magbehave like human and kahit morality na meron sa human ay hindi niya talaga alam. Kaya nga meron nang bagong version ng Tarzan. Hindi na since baby na ipinalaki ng mga apes. Yung meron ng isip ang bata somewhat mga 10 years old or 11 years old , mga ganun. Iyon kase , meron hope pa na mabago ang bata po kaya siguro , binago nila ang version ng Tarzan po.

Unrealistic kase ang Tarzan na original animated na since baby ay ipinalaki ng mother ape pagkatapos ang social contact niya ay mga apes din and after that na pagdating ng ãdül† si Tarzan ay natuto pa siya ng human language nang dumalo ang mga tao sa island which is unrealistic po siya talaga.

Mga ganyan cases na since child na walang human contact at puros hayop lang ang kasama niya at nagpalaki sa kanya , iyan , pure na atheist talaga siya dahil hindi naman namulat ang bata about God and everything po e. But iba ang morality na ikinagisnan ng bata dahil kahit ang mga hayop , meron sariling pag-iisip iyan.

Iyan lang ang masasabi ko.

P.S.

Ayan na naman. Feeling ko ay magagalit na naman siguro ang ilan Theist sa sinabi ko. Sila lang kase ang nagsasabi na ang morality ay galing God pagkatapos sila din nagsasabi na kung sino hindi naniniwala kay God ay mapupunta sa hell.​
 

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