Maliligtas po ba tayo base sa mga "Works" natin?

[Katipunero-]

No.​

This thread was based from user i choose you rattata.
Pasensya na. Medyo busy lang kaya ngayon naka-reply.
Thread: Kailangan ba marinig ng buong mundo ang pabasa?

Hindi po name-merit ng WORKS ang Salvation natin. We'll be justified by FAITH alone.
Eph. 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Verses na ginamit ni i choose you rattata
James 2:14-26

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good2 is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Hindi ko ma-gets, saan dito sinabi na nag-merit ng Salvation yung Works?
The main context here is about DEAD FAITH vs ALIVE FAITH.
WORKS AY BUNGA NG ALIVE FAITH. HINDI SYA ANG DAHILAN KUNG BAKIT KA MALILIGTAS.

SIMPLE EQUATION:

FAITH = SALVATION + WORKS​

 

[plhbg1]

i don't believe on both of you or your bible but i was once a christian and have read the bible

by that said, i would say that bible is saying men are saved by faith alone, meron pa yung verse dun na believe in me and you shall be saved (believing only for salvation), at meron din dun verse na salvation must have fruits (good works ata yun)

so iyan agree ako dun sa faith can save, works cannot, even faith plus works isn't the way, i am the only daw sabi pa doon kaya just believe in me and you shall be saved

 

[NOUGHT]

hindi ko po yan dadagdagan ng opinion from here on end puro verse lang po
so either lumabas na tama ka or tama ako or mali o mali ka ganun talaga

not meant to convince you or anything but meant to convince me po

 

[Psbik]

We will never know until it happens

 

[NOUGHT]

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[plhbg1]

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

eto pangontra sa faith alone, anu ba yang bible niyo nag aaway yung mga verses

 

[NOUGHT]

eto pangontra sa faith alone, anu ba yang bible niyo nag aaway yung mga verses

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[Katipunero-]

eto pangontra sa faith alone, anu ba yang bible niyo nag aaway yung mga verses

First of all, ang Bible po and yung mga contents nya ay hindi nagko-kontra sa isa't-isa. Pero dahil ginagamit ni i choose you rattata yung mga verses without proper context, mukha talaga silang nagtatalo lalo't walang tamang explanation kung ano ang nilalaman talaga or ano yung pinaka-context.

So kinuha nya yung James 1:22-40.
Ang context po nyan, may mga Kristyano na hindi nagma-manifest yung FAITH nila sa buhay nila. That's why sa kasunod na chapter, diniscuss naman ni James tungkol sa DEAD FAITH na meron yung mga Kristyano na hindi mo nakikitaan ng manifestation of their Faith.

Sila yung mga taong nagsasabi na may FAITH sila or Kristyano kuno pero in reality sila yung hindi MAKATAO example sa v.26 about sa kung paano makipag-usap ang isang tunay na Kristyano.

Nasan yung kinontra yung FAITH alone dyan?
Better study how to properly read the BIBLE in Context or with READING COMPREHENSION. Hindi sya literal lang na binabasa, inaaral din.

 

[NOUGHT]

First of all, ang Bible po and yung mga contents nya ay hindi nagko-kontra sa isa't-isa. Pero dahil ginagamit ni @i choose you rattata yung mga verses without proper context, mukha talaga silang nagtatalo lalo't walang tamang explanation kung ano ang nilalaman talaga or ano yung pinaka-context.

grabe naman si boss
hindi pa ba sapat yung once sabihin ng Diyos hindi na kailangan ng opinion ng tao
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

dahil ang opinion ng tao paiba iba kung aasa ka sa paliwanag ng tao...

gagawan ko rin yan ng topic later on itatag kita ng hindi ma sabing off-topic just read the verse and ask God about it

or not gonna tag you po since you already given me your verdict

Better study how to properly read the BIBLE in Context or with READING COMPREHENSION. Hindi sya literal lang na binabasa, inaaral din

grabe naman natamaan ako aray ang sakit parang tinetempt ka na mag bigay ka ng opinion mo

 

[plhbg1]

So kinuha nya yung James 1:22-40.
Ang context po nyan, may mga Kristyano na hindi nagma-manifest yung FAITH nila sa buhay nila. That's why sa kasunod na chapter, diniscuss naman ni James tungkol sa DEAD FAITH na meron yung mga Kristyano na hindi mo nakikitaan ng manifestation of their Faith.

so for all who say they believe, yung may good works lang ang na saved? ibig sabihin ba good works gagawin after salvation na? leaving only faith on the left side of the equation?

 

[Katipunero-]

so for all who say they believe, yung may good works lang ang na saved? ibig sabihin ba good works gagawin after salvation na? leaving only faith on the left side of the equation?

Good point po.

so for all who say they believe, yung may good works lang ang na saved?

Base sa sinabi ni James, para masabing "TUNAY" na may Faith ang isang tao, kailangan nagma-manifest or nagbu-bunga yung FAITH nya through WORKS. Kumbaga, magkakabit silang dalawa pero yung "FAITH" ang nagsisilbing justification para mase-save ang isang tao. At yung WORKS naman ang justification ng tao na sya ay may FAITH. This is doctrinal issue so malaki ang chance na malito tayo, I've spent so much time ng inaral ko to at kung paano ako naging "ILLUSTRADO".

One example po, if familiar kayo sa story ng thieves na nakasama ni Jesus sa cross. Walang "WORK" na ginawa yung thief pero naligtas sya dahil sa FAITH na meron sya. But this is a little bit argumentable kasi sa current scenario nya.

Ngayon, kaming mga Christians na labas sa ganon scenario, dapat namin ipakita yung FAITH namin sa tao through WORKS para masabing kami ay namumunga talaga. Hindi na namin kailangan ipakita yung FAITH namin kay Lord kasi alam nya ang laman ng puso at isip namin. But again sabi ni James, kung tunay na may FAITH, may lalabas din na GOOD WORKS.

ibig sabihin ba good works gagawin after salvation na? leaving only faith on the left side of the equation?

No. Like what I said, ang bunga ng FAITH ALONE ay SALVATION + GOOD WORKS.

FAITH = SALVATION + WORKS​

 

[plhbg1]

Good point po.


Base sa sinabi ni James, para masabing "TUNAY" na may Faith ang isang tao, kailangan nagma-manifest or nagbu-bunga yung FAITH nya through WORKS. Kumbaga, magkakabit silang dalawa pero yung "FAITH" ang nagsisilbing justification para mase-save ang isang tao. At yung WORKS naman ang justification ng tao na sya ay may FAITH. This is doctrinal issue so malaki ang chance na malito tayo, I've spent so much time ng inaral ko to at kung paano ako naging "ILLUSTRADO".

One example po, if familiar kayo sa story ng thieves na nakasama ni Jesus sa cross. Walang "WORK" na ginawa yung thief pero naligtas sya dahil sa FAITH na meron sya. But this is a little bit argumentable kasi sa current scenario nya.

Ngayon, kaming mga Christians na labas sa ganon scenario, dapat namin ipakita yung FAITH namin sa tao through WORKS para masabing kami ay namumunga talaga. Hindi na namin kailangan ipakita yung FAITH namin kay Lord kasi alam nya ang laman ng puso at isip namin. But again sabi ni James, kung tunay na may FAITH, may lalabas din na GOOD WORKS.


No. Like what I said, ang bunga ng FAITH ALONE ay SALVATION + GOOD WORKS.

FAITH = SALVATION + WORKS​

akala ko nag kokontra kanina di pala, tama pala yung salvation dapat may fruits, good works nga talaga tinutukoy nun, ang ganda kasi kahit di ako naniniwala sa reality ng bible stories pero at least meron ako tamang pagka grasp ng story doon

 

[Katipunero-]

akala ko nag kokontra kanina di pala, tama pala yung salvation dapat may fruits, good works nga talaga tinutukoy nun, ang ganda kasi kahit di ako naniniwala sa reality ng bible stories pero at least meron ako tamang pagka grasp ng story doon

Yeahhh absolutely. Biktima lang din ako ng mga MALING KATURUAN ng mga maling tao at maling simbahan. Dahil don, naging ATHEIST din ako so naiinitindihan ko yung mga feelings nyo. I accept the fact na sobrang daming ABOMINATION & DESOLATION silang nagawa at ang masama pa, hindi lang sila, pero pati si Lord nadamay sa mga kalokohan nila.

Hanggang sa sobrang curious ko na gusto ko patunayang walang Diyos at kung meron man, wala syang pakelam. Dahil din don, yun yong naging dahilan kaya mas maraming EVIDENCE & REVELATION ang pinakita sakin ni Lord at mas nakilala ko sya.

 

[plhbg1]

Yeahhh absolutely. Biktima lang din ako ng mga MALING KATURUAN ng mga maling tao at maling simbahan. Dahil don, naging ATHEIST din ako so naiinitindihan ko yung mga feelings nyo. I accept the fact na sobrang daming ABOMINATION & DESOLATION silang nagawa at ang masama pa, hindi lang sila, pero pati si Lord nadamay sa mga kalokohan nila.

Hanggang sa sobrang curious ko na gusto ko patunayang walang Diyos at kung meron man, wala syang pakelam. Dahil din don, yun yong naging dahilan kaya mas maraming EVIDENCE & REVELATION ang pinakita sakin ni Lord at mas nakilala ko sya.

ang tibay natin sa labas ng christianity dahil meron tayo background doon, why is religion so important when i can just live without it, i cannot find anything that requires me to have religion, tulad lang siya sa ibang groupings e.g. fraternities walang kasilbi silbi sa buhay ko

 

[Pewdy]

Faith without action is dead sabi nga nila, contradicting ang Faith lang dahil kung nainiwala ka lang pero wala sa gawa sa tingin mo maliligtas ka? Of course hindi ito example jan logic lang.
Example npag Faith lang pinairal pero wala sa gawa : Naniniwala ka kay jesus pero gumagawa ka naman ng mga karumaldumal na gawain katulad ng pagnanakaw, pangangaliwa etc do you think majujustify ba ang faith mo sa ginagawa mo of course hindi. Kaya dapat Faith+Work dapat

 

[plhbg1]

Naniniwala ka kay jesus pero gumagawa ka naman ng mga karumaldumal na gawain

and naniwala ka naman na he/she has faith? ako pwede ako mag sabi i have faith kahit wala, maniniwala ka din? pano kung patayin kita after sabi mo oo, di mo na maririnig pag sabi ko ng its a prank nun

 

[Pewdy]

Hay naku are you even comprehending what i have said tagalogin ko para sayo kaya nga pag faith lang meron ka delikado kasi lalo na pag wala naman sa GAWA gaya ng sabi mo naniniwal aka nga eh paano kung patayin mo ako edi wala din diba? Basa basa din bago mag comment, okay ka lang ba??

and naniwala ka naman na he/she has faith? ako pwede ako mag sabi i have faith kahit wala, maniniwala ka din? pano kung patayin kita after sabi mo oo, di mo na maririnig pag sabi ko ng its a prank nun

Hay naku are you even comprehending what i have said tagalogin ko para sayo kaya nga pag faith lang meron ka delikado kasi lalo na pag wala naman sa GAWA gaya ng sabi mo naniniwal aka nga eh paano kung patayin mo ako edi wala din diba? Basa basa din bago mag comment, okay ka lang ba??

 

[Katipunero-]

Example npag Faith lang pinairal pero wala sa gawa : Naniniwala ka kay jesus pero gumagawa ka naman ng mga karumaldumal na gawain katulad ng pagnanakaw, pangangaliwa etc do you think majujustify ba ang faith mo sa ginagawa mo of course hindi. Kaya dapat Faith+Work dapat

I believe you're pointing out sa GOOD WORKS vs BAD WORKS here.
Yung word na "pero gumagawa ka naman" may WORK pa din.

contradicting ang Faith lang dahil kung nainiwala ka lang pero wala sa gawa sa tingin mo maliligtas ka?

Like what I've said earlier. Kung yung context ang pagbabasehan, James is pointing out sa DEAD FAITH vs ALIVE FAITH. Ibig sabihin, kung may ALIVE OR SAVING FAITH ka talaga then mag-bubunga ng WORKS yun. Ngayon kung babasahin mo lang sya ng mababaw, without reading other passages, iisipin mo na yung;

WORKS ay KAILANGAN para ikaw ay maligtas.

Pero this will contradict some verses in the Bible like:
Eph. 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Rom. 3:28

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

ANG TAMANG INTERPRETATION SA CONTEXT AY:
WORKS ay BUNGA ng FAITH. ✔

Don't make me wrong. Hindi ko tinatanggal yung WORKS sa equation dahil si James na mismo may sabi na ito ang magpapatunay na may FAITH ang isang tao. FAITH = SALVATION + WORKS.

 

[Inuieki]

maliligtas lang ang isang tao kung sinunod ang kautusan ng panginoon

 

[Asherah Goddess]

Faith works alone? Tipong gumagawa ng mabuti? Sa near death experiencer , oo , nakakarating sila sa afterlife. Pagbalik sa earth , hindi sila nagiging religious. Nagiging maka spiritual lang sila. Basta gumagawa ng mabuti , oo.