Closed [Debate]atheist vs theist [Featuring]fabbriche vs stellarium

[fabbriche]

yan na naman tayo, again you contradicting one of the foundation of science the causality theory
ang quantum flunctuation na sinsabi mo ay uncertainty principle kaya hndi iyan ganong tanggap sa scientific communityv


at hindi accurate ang paliwanag mo dahil generally speaking pag tinanong mo isang ang atheist
why universe exist? they simply say that universe is eternal palusot nila para pabulaaan ang naka tala sa genesis
which nag sasabi ang universe ay may beginning

lets hold on at pag isipan natin mabuti, kung ang universe ay walang beginning, _(which according to the majority ng mga scriptures ng ibat ibang religion ay mayroon) it means ang universe ay may past events, and the history of its past event is infinite

ngunit inaaamin at tanggap ng mga mathematican na ang infinite numbers of things will lead to self contradiction.

at ito ang sabi ng greatest mathematician na nabuhay si David Hilbert
"the infinite is nowhere to be found in reality It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimatebasis for rational though"

at dyan sa sinabi mo quantum flunctuation, who caused that? haha hit me and pag sinabi mo wala at kusa na lang nangyari? yan ay hindi makokototohanan base mismo sa sarili nyo panukat

ano pa ang sabi ni David Hilbert?

But allow me to tell you that I never asserted so absurd aProposition as that anything might arise without a cause.”

at ito ay pinatutunayan ng atheist at philosopher na si Kai Nielsen sa kanyang isang example and illustration

'Suppose you suddenly hear a loud bang . . . and you ask me, ‘Whatmade that bang? ’ and I reply, ‘Nothing, it just happened.’ You wouldnot accept that. In fact you would find my reply quite unintelligible.'

so scientifically and philosophically speaking ang sinasabi ng mga atheists na ang universe ay eternal without beginning at ang sinabi mo na quantum flunctuation na whoops na bigla na lang nangyari the end of the story ay non sense at absurd it contradicting the foundation and theory of science itself sang ayon mismo sa panukat ng science at sinsabi ng mga scientist

Kelangan mo ring alamin ang cause ng diyos kung diyos ang ipo-propose mong cause ng universe. Mas logical at mas simpleng explanation ang quantum fluctuations bilang cause ng universe dahil totoo ang quantum fluctuations. Walang ebidensya ng diyos. Scientific ang quantum fluctuations. Hindi scientific ang diyos. Hindi tinatanggap ang unscientific ideas sa science.

Kahit hindi eternal ang universe, naexplain na rin ng mga scientists na di kelangan ng supernatural forces para malikha ang universe. Gaya ng sabi ko maraming bagay ang pwedeng lumikha ng universe. Hindi kelangan ng god.

Gaya rin ng sabi ko, B-Theory of time ang correct at most accepted nature of time ng mga physicists at philosophers. Sa B-Theory, ang time ay illusion lang. Ang past, present at future ay lahat totoo at nangyayari sa kasalukuyan. B-Theory ang supported ng General Relativity ni Einstein. Walang puwang ang diyos sa B-Time.

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Kaya gaya ng sabi ko, matagal nang natalo ang theism/religion ng atheism. Sa atheism pumapanig ang science at philosophy.

 

[fabbriche]

mukhang hindi mo nabasa ang ang ilan sa aklat ni karl marx
communism is atheistic economy and political ideology

a communist society is the example of a godless, atheistic society kaya wag mo po linisin ang sarili nyo kalat


ang communism na base sa idea ng atheistic Godless society ay hindi masama ideolohiya?

Economic system ang communism. Wala xang kinalaman sa religion/atheism. May communists na religious at meron ding atheist. Idealist ang communism. Hindi xa scientific. Hindi pa xa natetest in real life kaya xa nag-fail at nagresulta sa genocide at famine at starvation.

Atheists ang mga welfare states sa Western Europe at social democracies sila. Hindi sila pabor sa communism dahil hindi un nagwowork.

 

[fabbriche]

hindi ako naniniwala sa lahat ng nakasulat sa biliya at hindi lahat ng nakasulat dyan ay literal
i dont believe that adam and eve ay totoong unang tao, the story of adam and eve is the story of human beggining and its acendancy to godhood in microcosmic level.

may historical record ng existence ni jesus matuto ka magbasa ng old history book at hindi lang sa haka haka

Si Jesus ay mythological character na based sa historical person. Totoong may Jesus na nag-exist sa 1st century Judea at marami sila hindi lang isa. Ang hindi totoo ay may superpowers ang mga taong un.

 

[Cute-Piggy]

fabbriche matanong ko lang boss medyo personal ito pero wag mo sana masamain tuli kana ba?

 

[homer_simpson]

una wala ako sinabi bible memes ka, ako ang tinutukoy ko dahil d ko ugali mag latag ng verse sa bible

dami mo sinabi di mo naman masagot sagot yong tanong kung saan mo mababasa sa bible ang tribal God theory mo


at wala ako sinabi lahat ng nakatala sa bibliya ay totoo at recorded yan sa bible, the scribd of the past will corrupt the scriptures, ang pag atake sa walls of jericho at pagpatay sa ibang lahi ay outside yan sa nature ng omnipotence, merciful God, they corrupted and changed the bible dahil nature na ng children of israel ang pagiging rebelious you can read in the bible, though its corrupted we can still glimpse some kernel of truth in the bible , God fulfilled his promise and covenant with abraham thhrough his decendants, kahit na rebelious ang mga jewish, because God will not break his promise.

hindi for argument sake yan kundi kaylangan mo na aminin at tanggapin ang katotohanan unless pakitaan mo ko ng ibang version ng history ng jewish people

and till now di mo pa din masagot yong tanong
so lalagay ako sa pamamaraan mo at baka sakali may verse ka na mailatag sa tribal God na sinasabi mo

for the sake of argumentation lets just accept that God is a tribal God of Israel

may maipapakita ka ba talata sa bibliya mababasa na ni declare ng Diyos na siya ay Diyos lamang ng mga israelita

nasa balikat mo ang burden of proof dahil ikaw ang nagsasabi tribal God ng israel ang God
kaya pakilatag ang verse ng pinag batayan mo

Do god has to explicitly say that he is tribal, despite that in many instances he said that israel can never be defeated, saved from the palestines and it is the promise land? Even a 5-year can form what kind of mentality he has. Ayan, nasagot ko na tanong mo. Nasaan yung sagot mo sa previous questions ko about the nature of your god?

It appears that we are now getting at least 2 versions of bible believers: 1) those who claim that the bible is pure, perfect and god's word; 2) those who claim that not everything in bible is perfect, thus flawed.

 

[Cute-Piggy]

stellarium boss did you know na mala anti-christ galaw mo kaysa kay fabbriche

just want to let you know at much effective yung sayo kaysa sa kanya muntik ako na move at pumunta sa paniniwala mo but still staying here xD

 

[stellarium]

Kelangan mo ring alamin ang cause ng diyos kung diyos ang ipo-propose mong cause ng universe. Mas logical at mas simpleng explanation ang quantum fluctuations bilang cause ng universe dahil totoo ang quantum fluctuations. Walang ebidensya ng diyos. Scientific ang quantum fluctuations. Hindi scientific ang diyos. Hindi tinatanggap ang unscientific ideas sa science.

Kahit hindi eternal ang universe, naexplain na rin ng mga scientists na di kelangan ng supernatural forces para malikha ang universe. Gaya ng sabi ko maraming bagay ang pwedeng lumikha ng universe. Hindi kelangan ng god.

Gaya rin ng sabi ko, B-Theory of time ang correct at most accepted nature of time ng mga physicists at philosophers. Sa B-Theory, ang time ay illusion lang. Ang past, present at future ay lahat totoo at nangyayari sa kasalukuyan. B-Theory ang supported ng General Relativity ni Einstein. Walang puwang ang diyos sa B-Time.

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Kaya gaya ng sabi ko, matagal nang natalo ang theism/religion ng atheism. Sa atheism pumapanig ang science at philosophy.

God is eternal walang pag tatalo ang kahit ano pa mang sekta dyan,

tandaan mo
whatever begins has a cause,
scientifically speaking it seems true yet yet the scientists, the atheists the majority of them denying that premise by declaring the universe is eternal yan ay hypcrisy on its highest manifestation

of course marami kayo palusot dyan at ilan lang yan sa sinsabi mo yan
at yan sinsabi mo ay hindi iyan ganong tanggap sa scientific community
the idea of the universe sprung into being out of nothing in sub-atomic vacuum and flunctuation is a absurd and ridiculus idea according to many physicists it defies the foundation of physics

tignan natin kong ano ang paliwanag ng Philosopher of science na si Robert Deltete

There is nobasis in ordinary quantum theory for the claim that the universe it-self is uncaused, much less for the claim that it sprang into being uncaused from literally nothing.

makikita natin kahit na anong rationalized ng science sa universe they always comeback, disitegrate and falls in their theory that the universe is eternal, that the process of its mechanism is uncaused, in the end ay kinontra nila ang mga sarili nila theory at panukat

kaya kong yon naman pala ang paniniwala ng science na ang universe is eternal and its process developed in sub-atomic level is uncaused they must admit the idea of
eternal, self existing being
they must accept the idea of God

lastly yes its true na madami alternative theories how universe come to be gaya ng mga binanggit mo
but the verdict of the majority in scientific theory is none of them are more probable than the Big Bang Theory

at kung suuriin mo mabuti wala ni isa sa scientific model ng pagkakabuo ng universe ang mathematically consistent
they always failed at pilit nila tinatakpan ang malaki butas ng kanilang mga theory the Singularity - how it begins, they avoid and abandon their own causailty to trying hard to rationalize the universe

so in the lights of those scientific gap and innacurancy
the atheists must accept that a trancendent Creator of the universe exists.

 

[stellarium]

Economic system ang communism. Wala xang kinalaman sa religion/atheism. May communists na religious at meron ding atheist. Idealist ang communism. Hindi xa scientific. Hindi pa xa natetest in real life kaya xa nag-fail at nagresulta sa genocide at famine at starvation.

Atheists ang mga welfare states sa Western Europe at social democracies sila. Hindi sila pabor sa communism dahil hindi un nagwowork.

sino sayo nagsabi wala hahaha
na test na po yan sa russia at vietnam

at kong ikakatwiran mo saken socialism pa lang yon

abay mag isip ka po yong palang brutal na atheistic goverment ay socialist pa lang yon hindi pa pala yon extreme how brutal pala ng mga atheists

well accordining to the majority of political scientists and economists the model of communism ay pinatern ni marx sa model ng bibliya in redemption doctrine which he removed any idea of God , and theism so let me demonstrate to you


Original Sin => Private Property
Savior => Revolution
Judgement Day => Communism, less society
Heaven or Hell => The Dictatorship of the Proletariat, The Destruction of the Bourgrouis

kaya makikita mo you cannot escape the fact the marx and communism was influenced by the religious idea kaya hindi mo pwedi alisin ang religion at atheism sa komunismo


at yang sinasabi mo theist communism ay mga wanna be at revisionist lang yan ng ng original communism of karl marx which in reality is godless and atheistic ideology

christian communism, liberal theology pag mumurahin ni karl marx ang mga proponent nyan kong siya ay nabubuhay haha

 

[stellarium]

Do god has to explicitly say that he is tribal, despite that in many instances he said that israel can never be defeated, saved from the palestines and it is the promise land? Even a 5-year can form what kind of mentality he has. Ayan, nasagot ko na tanong mo. Nasaan yung sagot mo sa previous questions ko about the nature of your god?

It appears that we are now getting at least 2 versions of bible believers: 1) those who claim that the bible is pure, perfect and god's word; 2) those who claim that not everything in bible is perfect, thus flawed.

asan ang nasagot mo? hindi ka po ata nag babasa ng tanong
ilabas mo ang tribal God na sinasabi mo gamit ang bible verse


wala ka pa nasasagot kundi sarili mo lang opinyon ang bibliya ang pag basihan natin dahil dyan mo kinuha ang idea mo ng tribal God so you must support your claim using explicit bible verses

wala ako sinabi perpekto ang bible mag backread ka sa mga sinabi ko dito, there is no perfect scripture i know the history of the compilation of the bible

and it appears now you do believe that God fulfilled his promise but you are trying to escape the fact and reality by insisting your Tribal God Theory which unfortunately you cant provide even a single explicit verse on your claim

 

[stellarium]

Si Jesus ay mythological character na based sa historical person. Totoong may Jesus na nag-exist sa 1st century Judea at marami sila hindi lang isa. Ang hindi totoo ay may superpowers ang mga taong un.

QUOTE="Cute-Piggy, post: 13020747, member: 1495724"]
stellarium boss did you know na mala anti-christ galaw mo kaysa kay fabbriche

just want to let you know at much effective yung sayo kaysa sa kanya muntik ako na move at pumunta sa paniniwala mo but still staying here xD
[/QUOTE]

ang anti-christ piggy ay yong ayaw kay jesus, d ako naniniwal siya ay God but respect him as one of the prophet of God.

magbasa ka ng aklat tungkol sa historical jesus, para malaman mo siya ay nag exist, si jesus ay myth, oo siya po ay myths sa isip ng mga godless na tulad mo malalayo pa tayo sa topic pag tinalakay natin yan pero pwede kita i point out sa ilang aklat na tumatalakay sa historical jesus kong interesado ka

 

[homer_simpson]

asan ang nasagot mo? hindi ka po ata nag babasa ng tanong
ilabas mo ang tribal God na sinasabi mo gamit ang bible verse


wala ka pa nasasagot kundi sarili mo lang opinyon ang bibliya ang pag basihan natin dahil dyan mo kinuha ang idea mo ng tribal God so you must support your claim using explicit bible verses

wala ako sinabi perpekto ang bible mag backread ka sa mga sinabi ko dito, there is no perfect scripture i know the history of the compilation of the bible

and it appears now you do believe that God fulfilled his promise but you are trying to escape the fact and reality by insisting your Tribal God Theory which unfortunately you cant provide even a single explicit verse on your claim

May pagka-st**pid kaba?

Ok, put it the other way. So hindi tribal yung god mo at mali si homer_simpson.

“For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 7:6-8)

What does this imply to you?

 

[stellarium]

May pagka-st**pid kaba?

Ok, put it the other way. So hindi tribal yung god mo at mali si homer_simpson.

So god saved the israelites from the hands of palestines. god made a covenant with israel only. So that does not include pinoys. What does it imply to you?

ahahaha

ang hinihingi ko sayo ay verse ng bibliya galing sa sarili mo claim
kaya burden of proof mo yan kaya ilabas mo

correction at magbasa ka mabuti, yan mahirap sa hindi nagbabasa ng bible ang opinyon ay haka haka
God made a covenant with Abraham not specifically from the jewish people his decendant

 

[stellarium]

alam mo ba homer na hindi lang ikaw naka talakayan ko sa bagay na yan
miron ako noon nakatalakayan na self proclaimed christian gnostics at neo pagan
same kayo ng sinasabi that the God is a tribal God

piro tulad dn ng nangyayari sayo, hinahanapan ko sila ng verse to support their claim wala sila mailabas

 

[stellarium]

asaan dito ang Tribal God na sinasabi mo?


ikaw ata ang maypagka... wooops wag na nga lang haha


For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 7:6-8)

yan ni highlight ko na po para sayo
God keep his promise on their ancestors, abraham and the early prophet the reason why he saved israel
kaya ginawa mighty ni God ang israel ay bilang pagtupad sa kanyang pangako ngayon asaan ang sinasabi mo na tribal God ang God?

 

[Thea18]

Boss homer!!!kung susukatin ko talakayan niyong dalawa mukhang nangangamuti ka...kung ako sayo baguhin mo ng style mo para makahabol ka same doon sa kasama mo na ipinasa yong burden kay stellarium tungkol sa quantum fluctuations.

Sa pagkakaintindi ko boss stellarium sinisira nila yong pangunahing principle ng science na "nothing happens without a cause"correct me f im wrong na lang.

Kayong dalawa wag kayo magalit sa, akin...bagbabasa lang ako.

 

[homer_simpson]

alam mo ba homer na hindi lang ikaw naka talakayan ko sa bagay na yan
miron ako noon nakatalakayan na self proclaimed christian gnostics at neo pagan
same kayo ng sinasabi that the God is a tribal God

piro tulad dn ng nangyayari sayo, hinahanapan ko sila ng verse to support their claim wala sila mailabas

Eh ano tawag mo sa ipinost kong verse?

 

[homer_simpson]

Boss homer!!!kung susukatin ko talakayan niyong dalawa mukhang nangangamuti ka...kung ako sayo baguhin mo ng style mo para makahabol ka same doon sa kasama mo na ipinasa yong burden kay stellarium tungkol sa quantum fluctuations.

Sa pagkakaintindi ko boss stellarium sinisira nila yong pangunahing principle ng science na "nothing happens without a cause"correct me f im wrong na lang.

Kayong dalawa wag kayo magalit sa, akin...bagbabasa lang ako.

Uyy, may isang hitch-hiker na wala din alam but to follow blindly.

 

[homer_simpson]

asaan dito ang Tribal God na sinasabi mo?


ikaw ata ang maypagka... wooops wag na nga lang haha


For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 7:6-8)

yan ni highlight ko na po para sayo
God keep his promise on their ancestors, abraham and the early prophet the reason why he saved israel
kaya ginawa mighty ni God ang israel ay bilang pagtupad sa kanyang pangako ngayon asaan ang sinasabi mo na tribal God ang God?

Eh pano yun, hindi ancestor yung mga tao na yun?

 

[homer_simpson]

Eh pano yun, hindi ancestor yung mga tao na yun?

Minsan, hindi mo talaga alam kung may taong ***** o nagtatanga-tangahan. So kelangan i-literal sa yo? Can't get the meaning out of its actions?

 

[Thea18]

Uyy, may isang hitch-hiker na wala din alam but to follow blindly.

Kaya nga po ako nagbabasa para madagdagan yong aking kaalaman eh kaya lang bakit ikaw may alam ka pala at matalino pero mukhang behind ka.

Sege boss!!!bumawi ka...dito lang kami nagbabasa nawalan kana agad ng isang point 1-0.