Praying works! Until it doesn't....

[jayendecastro]

Just want to know how effective prayers are.... Di na nmn bago ang sinasabi ng iba na "miracle" daw ang isang pangyayari na naging sagot sa dasal nila... Or minsan sa mga sad and low moments eh sasabihan ka sa fb ng "my thoughts and prayers are with you"...

Pero why do people pray pa in the first place when there is supposedly a "divine plan" na naput together na?? So that plan can change depending on what the believer prayed for?? Or was the outcome part of the plan all along?? If thats the case then praying for something is pretty much pointless ata.

And some people prayed for somethings na so vague na pag may nangyayari sa buhay nila eh they can easily fit that narrative an an "answer to their prayer" ...but pag specific ang prayer and di natupad eh kesyo "di pa time" or "di yun ang need na ibigay ni god"...

And may confirmation bias din ang ilang believers na they will highlight and celebrate a particular answered prayer and testify how great rheir god is but never acknowledging the times when their prayer were never answered.

And someone even said na hindi natutupad ang lahat ng pangarap dahil di lahat totoo ang motibo...thats a bad excuse.... If example may 2 bata na may sakit...both are dying.. both of them prayed for recovery...even the parents of both child prayed...then one kid survive and the other didnt....can u say na "di totoo ang motibo" ng namatay na bata and his parents??

If prayer works wala ng waiting lists sa mga organ donations... Wala ng kita ang hospitals.. walang naghihirap.. walang nagkakaproblema ng ano ano...

Your giving the god ur praying to too much credit when you u, as a person shud take credit for pulling through adversaries sa buhay...

Your also making so many excuses for god sa mga panahon na lapse and absent sya sa mga pangngailangan mo..

Prayer gives hope sabi ng iba... Pero wat kind of hope are u actually giving??

 

[jayels-cham]

Dadating din ang panahon na ikaw na lalapit o sasambit sa kanya, ok lang yan maging matalino at maniwala ka na iba ka sa kanila o samin. In short part of the plan

 

[Palmeras]

prayer is just for positive reinforcement lang or pede din coping mechanisms ng mga taong wala ng makapitan orrr yung mga devoted talaga nagdadasal ako rati pero at some point narealize ko na wala namang nangyayari it's kinda pointless

 

[jayendecastro]

Dadating din ang panahon na ikaw na lalapit o sasambit sa kanya, ok lang yan maging matalino at maniwala ka na iba ka sa kanila o samin. In short part of the plan

Kahit nga di ako eh.. kahit ung mga naniwala na lang na ilang panahon na ang dumating at ilang beses ng lumapit kay god na di natugunan... How do u expect na a person like me would ask a being na mababa ang accuracy sa ganang bagay...

May scenario na nga ako binigay sa taas... Bat ganon ang ending?

And wat are u inserting about matalino?? Thats not part of this topic.

 

[RyzenV]

If prayer works wala ng waiting lists sa mga organ donations... Wala ng kita ang hospitals.. walang naghihirap.. walang nagkakaproblema ng ano ano...

di pwedeng walang naghihirap, di pwedeng mawala ang problema sa mundo, Ginawa ng Diyos yan dahil makasalanan tayong mga tao, kaya nga binigyan tayo ng karapatan upang manalangin para idaing sa kanya yung mga hinanakit natin.. tandaan, walang imposible sa Diyos..

 

[jayendecastro]

prayer is just for positive reinforcement lang or pede din coping mechanisms ng mga taong wala ng makapitan orrr yung mga devoted talaga nagdadasal ako rati pero at some point narealize ko na wala namang nangyayari it's kinda pointless

Yep..gets ko ung aspect na ganon.. pero if a person does that, talking or whispering words and talking to the sky eh iisipin nila he's crazy... Pero thats not them because they are conversing with god supposedly.... Pero yah..things will either happen or not... Kahit ipagdasal o hinde

 

[Palmeras]

di pwedeng walang naghihirap, di pwedeng mawala ang problema sa mundo, Ginawa ng Diyos yan dahil makasalanan tayong mga tao, kaya nga binigyan tayo ng karapatan upang manalangin para idaing sa kanya yung mga hinanakit natin.. tandaan, walang imposible sa Diyos..

bakit tayo naging makasalan? so ok lang na maaraming namamatay kasi makasalanan tayo? ayos lang na madami naghihirap kasi makasalanan tayo? eh yung mga batang walang muwang sa mundo na nahihirapan oks lang kase makasalanan? hindi naman ata sapat ang dahilan ng pagiging makasalan.

 

[Palmeras]

Yep..gets ko ung aspect na ganon.. pero if a person does that, talking or whispering words and talking to the sky eh iisipin nila he's crazy... Pero thats not them because they are conversing with god supposedly.... Pero yah..things will either happen or not... Kahit ipagdasal o hinde

tama tama magaganap ang magaganap may Diyos man o wala

 

[jayendecastro]

di pwedeng walang naghihirap, di pwedeng mawala ang problema sa mundo, Ginawa ng Diyos yan dahil makasalanan tayong mga tao, kaya nga binigyan tayo ng karapatan upang manalangin para idaing sa kanya yung mga hinanakit natin.. tandaan, walang imposible sa Diyos..

When u say "di pwedeng" ganto or ganyan them follow it up with "walang imposible" eh kinda doesnt make any sense... Kung walang imposible eh di maari na walang "di pwede"...

Yang pagiging "makasalanan" ng tao eh mahabang paliwanagan pa.... Pero eto, if that were even true..na may ganan dahil sa kasalanan they when do some people eh walang problema..regardless of what they believe in..whether they pray or not... While ung iba nmn kahit anong dasal eh di makaahon sa buhay.?? Is that ur god being "just"??

 

[jayendecastro]

bakit tayo naging makasalan? so ok lang na maaraming namamatay kasi makasalanan tayo? ayos lang na madami naghihirap kasi makasalanan tayo? eh yung mga batang walang muwang sa mundo na nahihirapan oks lang kase makasalanan? hindi naman ata sapat ang dahilan ng pagiging makasalan.

Yep... I have a lot of question bout jan sa "creation and original sin" narrative na yan eh... Tho for another discussion sguro..

 

[jayendecastro]

tama tama magaganap ang magaganap may Diyos man o wala

Yep..and tayong mga tao ang responsible for that...either good or bad ang ending eh its on us....


And even this pandemic... Ilan ang nagpray to be safe sa virus and even sa effects sa life naten... Imagine ang nangyari sa ibang lugar na pilit pinagpatuloy ang religious services nila...they were not spared... They made the situation worst.... And whos taking action now to resolve this?? Who established mga safety protocols and guidelines?? Sino nagdedevelop ng vaccines?? Tayo db...mga tao... This would been the perfect time for a "miracle" from any god...kaso waley...

 

[lems321]

no one knows what's God's plan. for me were heading to judgement, the test of faith for believers.

For me next year will be a blessful year. Im 100% sure.

 

[homer_simpson]

no one knows what's God's plan. for me were heading to judgement, the test of faith for believers.

For me next year will be a blessful year. Im 100% sure.

No one knows god's plan and yet here you are saying that "next year will be a blessfull year. Im 100% sure."

 

[homer_simpson]

Yung prayer is actually a form of panacea or placebo effect. Ang nakikitang ko lang na dyan is yung feel-good effect. Ang usage nyan ay similar sa isang dying soldier sa battlefield where his fellow soldiers will tell him that everything will be alright despite the fact that everyone knows that his condition is hopeless.

Depende kung paano titingnan ng isa yung feel-good effect such that even if it is practically useless but it brings comfort sa practitioner. In my opinion, ang long-term negative effect nito is the practitioner becomes too reliant on it such that he now truly believes that it works, despite that it doesn't. In that manner, hindi na ito kakaiba sa drugs. It now becomes a form of addiction na kailangan gawin to invoke feel-good effect.

The other and bigger negative effect of it is that it now renders the practitioner incapable of logical reasoning (sa prayer vs logical context, I mean). Such that he fully accepts that "god has a plan, god is merciful, prayer works, god can heal my loved ones". To the point that he now becomes oblivious of what is ACTUALLY happening on his surroundings such as too much sufferings, famine, diseases, natural calamities, deteriorating social conditions etc. But if you ask, "may plano si lord". WTF???!!

Eto ang pinakasimpleng tanong ko: ang mga pilipino bilang isa sa pinaka-religious group of people sa buong mundo at ilang milenyo ng nanawagan sa god -- does our past, current (and most likely future) conditions show that we are being looked after by god; that our prayers are being heard; that our gravely ill loved ones come out healed; that he is punishing those who make our lives miserable? The big answer is NO. So why pray?

In short, prayer can imprison one's mind from thinking clearly.

 

[lems321]

akin po yung expectation kaya sabi ko ''For me". read carefully.

 

[jayendecastro]

no one knows what's God's plan. for me were heading to judgement, the test of faith for believers.

For me next year will be a blessful year. Im 100% sure.

Kontra kasi ung statement mo na "no one knows" tapos ung "100% sure" kamo... So di ka part ng "no one knows"?

 

[jayendecastro]

Yung prayer is actually a form of panacea or placebo effect. Ang nakikitang ko lang na dyan is yung feel-good effect. Ang usage nyan ay similar sa isang dying soldier sa battlefield where his fellow soldiers will tell him that everything will be alright despite the fact that everyone knows that his condition is hopeless.

Depende kung paano titingnan ng isa yung feel-good effect such that even if it is practically useless but it brings comfort sa practitioner. In my opinion, ang long-term negative effect nito is the practitioner becomes too reliant on it such that he now truly believes that it works, despite that it doesn't. In that manner, hindi na ito kakaiba sa drugs. It now becomes a form of addiction na kailangan gawin to invoke feel-good effect.

The other and bigger negative effect of it is that it now renders the practitioner incapable of logical reasoning (sa prayer vs logical context, I mean). Such that he fully accepts that "god has a plan, god is merciful, prayer works, god can heal my loved ones". To the point that he now becomes oblivious of what is ACTUALLY happening on his surroundings such as too much sufferings, famine, diseases, natural calamities, deteriorating social conditions etc. But if you ask, "may plano si lord". WTF???!!

Eto ang pinakasimpleng tanong ko: ang mga pilipino bilang isa sa pinaka-religious group of people sa buong mundo at ilang milenyo ng nanawagan sa god -- does our past, current (and most likely future) conditions show that we are being looked after by god; that our prayers are being heard; that our gravely ill loved ones come out healed; that he is punishing those who make our lives miserable? The big answer is NO. So why pray?

In short, prayer can imprison one's mind from thinking clearly.

It also gives people the sense that they are doing something about an issue when they actually are not.

 

[homer_simpson]

Alam ko na sayo. Sinabi ko ba na hindi? To quote myself "...and yet here you are saying that...".

 

[DoLL23]

Ikaw ba? Nasubukan mo ng magdasal? If yes I'm sure u had a lot of disappointment bcuz your prayers not answered diba?That's why u saying all of this.

 

[Kaplok Kaplok]

Eto ang purpose ng prayer sa rational way na pagtingin sa religion. Eto ang sinasabing kapangyarihan ng "salita", at yung epekto nito sa psyche ng tao.

Halimabawa, may sama ka ng loob sa partner mo. Pero hindi pa nya alam. Yung level ng galit mo at this point ay sabihin ntin sakto lang.

Sa oras na sabihin mo sakanya, "nakakainis ka kasi....." yung level ng galit mo mas umaangat.
Pero pag sinabi mo mo "hindi ako galit, pero yun ginawa mo mali...." mapapansin mo na yung level ng galit mo bumababa din.
Ganyan din ang prayer. At mas effective sya binibigkas mo out loud ung mga gusto mo. Mas marami ang nakakarinig, at mas malalapit na tai sayo, mas naiinternalize mo ung mga gusto mo, at mas nag-act out ka sa tunay na buhay para tupadin ung prayer mo.

Sa madaling sabi, ang prayer ay similar sa self-hypnotism.

Hindi ako relihiyoso, pero yan lang ang psychological observation ko sa sarili ko at sa iba.